1
00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:02,510
and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

2
00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:04,290
triangle you know there's explanation

3
00:00:09,020 --> 00:00:05,490
for everything that occurred in the

4
00:00:11,930 --> 00:00:09,030
Rendlesham forest incident it was

5
00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:11,940
completely silent it comes right over

6
00:00:20,060 --> 00:00:18,690
our head he turned over to my father and

7
00:00:25,910 --> 00:00:20,070
held his hand and he looked in his eyes

8
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:25,920
they said we're not alone welcome to

9
00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:29,250
podcast UFO for our live show we're live

10
00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:31,529
every Wednesday at 8 p.m. Eastern

11
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:33,690
Standard Time on the dark matter radio

12
00:00:39,350 --> 00:00:35,850
network please remember to visit the

13
00:00:42,530 --> 00:00:39,360
website podcast UFO comm for past

14
00:00:44,540 --> 00:00:42,540
episodes blogs and forums during the

15
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:44,550
show feel free to participate live in

16
00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:47,010
our chat room and don't forget to Like

17
00:00:52,700 --> 00:00:49,489
us on our very active Facebook page

18
00:00:54,889 --> 00:00:52,710
hello and welcome to the show I'm Martyn

19
00:00:58,580 --> 00:00:54,899
Willis your host and we have a great

20
00:01:00,170 --> 00:00:58,590
show coming up tonight Ron Felber is our

21
00:01:03,049 --> 00:01:00,180
guest and he's gonna be talking about

22
00:01:05,660 --> 00:01:03,059
his book the Mojave incident and it's

23
00:01:07,820 --> 00:01:05,670
inspired by a chilling story of alien

24
00:01:09,649 --> 00:01:07,830
abduction now it's possible in the

25
00:01:12,469 --> 00:01:09,659
second hour that we may have a surprise

26
00:01:14,539 --> 00:01:12,479
guest I'm not really sure I'm waiting to

27
00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:14,549
get a text from somebody is what is

28
00:01:18,530 --> 00:01:16,530
happening here news is going to be

29
00:01:20,450 --> 00:01:18,540
coming up with Alejandro Rojas in a few

30
00:01:24,469 --> 00:01:20,460
minutes before that I want to talk about

31
00:01:26,630 --> 00:01:24,479
our support platform I sent out and two

32
00:01:29,300 --> 00:01:26,640
emails to everyone that supports the

33
00:01:31,789 --> 00:01:29,310
show and it got about a 50 percent open

34
00:01:33,289 --> 00:01:31,799
rate which I guess is pretty high for a

35
00:01:35,359 --> 00:01:33,299
mass mailing but pretty low when it

36
00:01:37,569 --> 00:01:35,369
comes to all the supporters so a number

37
00:01:40,850 --> 00:01:37,579
of people do not have a clue that

38
00:01:42,499 --> 00:01:40,860
joyride has gone away and there's a new

39
00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:42,509
platform I'm getting emails every day

40
00:01:46,819 --> 00:01:44,970
it's not working so the reason it's not

41
00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:46,829
working is you have to resize up and

42
00:01:51,109 --> 00:01:49,170
it's all through our website podcast UFO

43
00:01:53,810 --> 00:01:51,119
calm click on support the show all the

44
00:01:57,139 --> 00:01:53,820
information is there under all the links

45
00:01:59,359 --> 00:01:57,149
we have an RSS feed for your media

46
00:02:01,639 --> 00:01:59,369
player as well so everything's done

47
00:02:03,889 --> 00:02:01,649
in-house and that's thanks to Sam Bozell

48
00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:03,899
who helped out with that so how that

49
00:02:08,900 --> 00:02:05,610
works if you're new to the show is the

50
00:02:10,940 --> 00:02:08,910
first hour as a podcast is free on

51
00:02:12,770 --> 00:02:10,950
iTunes on our website on stitcher and

52
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:12,780
all that the second hour is by

53
00:02:16,410 --> 00:02:13,690
subscription

54
00:02:19,190 --> 00:02:16,420
only and that's through supporting the

55
00:02:21,660 --> 00:02:19,200
show you'll you'll get to log in and

56
00:02:23,900 --> 00:02:21,670
complete full shows we'll be right there

57
00:02:27,210 --> 00:02:23,910
including the archives and we're also

58
00:02:30,060 --> 00:02:27,220
live free to anyone that wants to listen

59
00:02:32,250 --> 00:02:30,070
on the Dark Matter digital radio every

60
00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:32,260
Wednesday at 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. Eastern

61
00:02:38,190 --> 00:02:35,110
Standard Time we do have one issue that

62
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:38,200
cannot be resolved as of yet but I do

63
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:41,530
have posts out there in forms for

64
00:02:48,270 --> 00:02:44,530
support and that is safari if you own an

65
00:02:50,370 --> 00:02:48,280
iPad or a Mac Safari is not playing our

66
00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:50,380
shows for some reason it's playing for

67
00:02:54,030 --> 00:02:52,570
about a minute and then repeating so

68
00:02:56,220 --> 00:02:54,040
we're working on that trying to figure

69
00:02:58,890 --> 00:02:56,230
out what's going on now last week I

70
00:03:00,840 --> 00:02:58,900
mentioned that if there was a graphic

71
00:03:03,690 --> 00:03:00,850
designer out there that I needed help

72
00:03:06,090 --> 00:03:03,700
with the t-shirt and of the banner and

73
00:03:09,930 --> 00:03:06,100
my website well let me tell you I got no

74
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:09,940
less than 13 I counted them 13 graphic

75
00:03:16,110 --> 00:03:13,450
designers contacted me willing to do the

76
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:16,120
work the first one was Diane and she

77
00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:18,250
made the banner for our website which is

78
00:03:23,430 --> 00:03:20,530
up there right now check it out she did

79
00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:23,440
a very nice job we're gonna have a bunch

80
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:26,290
of people throw their designs into the

81
00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:28,090
ring for a t-shirt contest and I think

82
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:30,130
I'm gonna have it up on our website and

83
00:03:34,830 --> 00:03:32,530
have you a listener vote for our t-shirt

84
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:34,840
graphics how does that sound alright

85
00:03:40,949 --> 00:03:38,530
that's enough of me and we are bringing

86
00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:40,959
in Alejandro Rojas for the news what's

87
00:03:46,380 --> 00:03:43,930
going on Alejandro UFOs are what's going

88
00:03:48,570 --> 00:03:46,390
on but either here they're there they're

89
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:48,580
everywhere but then again perhaps they

90
00:03:56,070 --> 00:03:52,690
are nowhere Wow then that really could

91
00:03:59,280 --> 00:03:56,080
be you know yeah you know it's really

92
00:04:01,080 --> 00:03:59,290
possible it's something I bring up on

93
00:04:03,449 --> 00:04:01,090
the show a number of times I said it and

94
00:04:06,509 --> 00:04:03,459
probably people are tired of hearing it

95
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:06,519
but we may have totally the wrong idea

96
00:04:11,009 --> 00:04:09,250
with what we are seeing mm-hmm you know

97
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:11,019
entirely something we never even thought

98
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:15,130
of it's possible yeah in fact that's

99
00:04:18,390 --> 00:04:16,810
what I would say well my girlfriend will

100
00:04:19,830 --> 00:04:18,400
get mad because you say well you believe

101
00:04:22,140 --> 00:04:19,840
their alien drink and I'll be like I

102
00:04:24,090 --> 00:04:22,150
don't know I don't know okay

103
00:04:24,690 --> 00:04:24,100
because you know when it comes to

104
00:04:28,260 --> 00:04:24,700
science

105
00:04:30,390 --> 00:04:28,270
most of the time we discover stuff we

106
00:04:33,750 --> 00:04:30,400
didn't expect to be there at all you

107
00:04:36,150 --> 00:04:33,760
know like we our dark energy even know

108
00:04:37,890 --> 00:04:36,160
what dark matter no idea he is we're

109
00:04:39,270 --> 00:04:37,900
clueless so it's like you know we'll

110
00:04:41,370 --> 00:04:39,280
have an idea oh this is what it's

111
00:04:42,690 --> 00:04:41,380
probably like there and then we check it

112
00:04:43,770 --> 00:04:42,700
out and it's like oh my gosh it's

113
00:04:45,930 --> 00:04:43,780
completely different

114
00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:45,940
so that's science so who knows you could

115
00:04:52,170 --> 00:04:48,850
be right I agree with you 200 percent so

116
00:04:56,340 --> 00:04:52,180
hey by the way have you seen the movie

117
00:04:59,250 --> 00:04:56,350
the Martian I haven't and I so much want

118
00:05:01,020 --> 00:04:59,260
to see it oh I was so bummed last month

119
00:05:04,470 --> 00:05:01,030
I was invited to go to the press

120
00:05:07,470 --> 00:05:04,480
conference with Ridley Scott at NASA

121
00:05:10,740 --> 00:05:07,480
a NASA facility in California to talk

122
00:05:13,140 --> 00:05:10,750
about it but I couldn't go it's because

123
00:05:15,570 --> 00:05:13,150
I do these Huffington Post science blogs

124
00:05:18,420 --> 00:05:15,580
and they invite me for these movies and

125
00:05:20,220 --> 00:05:18,430
stuff sometimes and I couldn't go and

126
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:20,230
I've been looking forward to this movie

127
00:05:25,860 --> 00:05:23,170
for so long hopefully I'll be able to

128
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:25,870
catch it this weekend yeah I expect I'm

129
00:05:30,090 --> 00:05:28,210
gonna go see it tomorrow mm-hmm

130
00:05:31,950 --> 00:05:30,100
hopefully you haven't seen it I haven't

131
00:05:33,030 --> 00:05:31,960
seen it my son and I are probably gonna

132
00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:33,040
go catch it tomorrow night

133
00:05:37,410 --> 00:05:35,290
yeah cool looks really good though

134
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:37,420
doesn't it it looks awesome and the

135
00:05:40,710 --> 00:05:39,730
reviews are great so I'm really really

136
00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:40,720
excited about

137
00:05:46,770 --> 00:05:44,290
I know it's making like I don't know 70

138
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:46,780
million dollars or something so yeah at

139
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:50,170
liaison yeah pretty cool yeah we'll have

140
00:05:55,770 --> 00:05:52,690
to check that out but this is something

141
00:06:00,110 --> 00:05:55,780
cool speaking of cool so we're gonna

142
00:06:03,450 --> 00:06:00,120
have a open mind Facebook group soon oh

143
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:03,460
you don't say open minds does not have a

144
00:06:07,890 --> 00:06:05,770
Facebook page right now is that correct

145
00:06:10,170 --> 00:06:07,900
yeah we do we have a Facebook page oh

146
00:06:12,780 --> 00:06:10,180
this is something different a Facebook

147
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:12,790
group grew you know like UFO updates

148
00:06:19,380 --> 00:06:16,090
that's a discussion group right right

149
00:06:21,930 --> 00:06:19,390
what's another world UFO day is a

150
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:21,940
discussion group so a groups different

151
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:24,970
because a group you join and you you get

152
00:06:29,670 --> 00:06:27,010
more updates about what's going on in

153
00:06:31,860 --> 00:06:29,680
there and it's all about discussions at

154
00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:31,870
what's hard is they have to be admins

155
00:06:35,850 --> 00:06:33,850
like a forum like this is even a closed

156
00:06:37,959 --> 00:06:35,860
group because you could get booted

157
00:06:39,969 --> 00:06:37,969
because as everybody knows

158
00:06:42,639 --> 00:06:39,979
you know the internet is full of people

159
00:06:45,969 --> 00:06:42,649
just being total jerk-offs trolls

160
00:06:48,309 --> 00:06:45,979
yeah trolls we call them I could Gore

161
00:06:54,039 --> 00:06:48,319
jerk-offs I like calling them jerk-offs

162
00:06:57,459 --> 00:06:54,049
but so these admins for this MUFON group

163
00:06:59,499 --> 00:06:57,469
are just like specialists at watching

164
00:07:01,419 --> 00:06:59,509
over and making sure that you know

165
00:07:03,489 --> 00:07:01,429
people are behaving themselves which is

166
00:07:05,679 --> 00:07:03,499
really cool because a lot of great

167
00:07:08,229 --> 00:07:05,689
discourse goes on people agreeing and

168
00:07:10,779 --> 00:07:08,239
disagreeing on things you know looking

169
00:07:11,859 --> 00:07:10,789
into sightings and stuff but being very

170
00:07:14,769 --> 00:07:11,869
civil

171
00:07:18,839 --> 00:07:14,779
so MUFON decided they can't handle

172
00:07:21,129 --> 00:07:18,849
having a Facebook page and a group so

173
00:07:23,499 --> 00:07:21,139
I've talked to them and they've decided

174
00:07:26,679 --> 00:07:23,509
you know we'll make it an open minds

175
00:07:28,989 --> 00:07:26,689
group then so in about a week I'll give

176
00:07:31,329 --> 00:07:28,999
you a status update but we shouldn't the

177
00:07:34,059 --> 00:07:31,339
next few days have that up so if people

178
00:07:38,139 --> 00:07:34,069
want a facebook you know discussion kind

179
00:07:41,049 --> 00:07:38,149
of area that's safe from jerk-offs aka

180
00:07:42,519 --> 00:07:41,059
trolls then I'm really excited we're

181
00:07:44,469 --> 00:07:42,529
gonna have something like that soon is

182
00:07:47,079 --> 00:07:44,479
that actually going to say like open

183
00:07:51,189 --> 00:07:47,089
mind slash MUFON or is it just now

184
00:07:54,249 --> 00:07:51,199
totally open minds and you're gonna try

185
00:07:56,109 --> 00:07:54,259
to migrate some of the users over yeah

186
00:07:58,719 --> 00:07:56,119
we're gonna try to migrate the users

187
00:08:01,479 --> 00:07:58,729
over I don't know exactly how we're

188
00:08:03,819 --> 00:08:01,489
gonna do it but we might be able to

189
00:08:05,049 --> 00:08:03,829
change the name or something but yeah

190
00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:05,059
we're going to work on something like

191
00:08:12,729 --> 00:08:05,329
that

192
00:08:14,679 --> 00:08:12,739
great yeah because if anybody messes

193
00:08:17,049 --> 00:08:14,689
with Martin you know it's like we'll

194
00:08:20,100 --> 00:08:17,059
boot the jerk off that's right instant

195
00:08:22,929 --> 00:08:20,110
jerk off status if you mess with Martin

196
00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:22,939
that's pretty good huh all right and I

197
00:08:27,819 --> 00:08:24,889
feel I feel I feel safe already

198
00:08:29,499 --> 00:08:27,829
mmhmm yeah so what else is happening in

199
00:08:31,269 --> 00:08:29,509
this yeah well some of the UFO news

200
00:08:33,819 --> 00:08:31,279
we'll be talking about in that group as

201
00:08:36,429 --> 00:08:33,829
soon as we get that rolling is a Hillary

202
00:08:37,509 --> 00:08:36,439
Clinton this is kind of cool you might

203
00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:37,519
have seen this if you're a coast to

204
00:08:41,980 --> 00:08:39,050
coast man they actually posted this

205
00:08:43,569 --> 00:08:41,990
story of mine on the front page that you

206
00:08:45,129 --> 00:08:43,579
suppose more of our stories but they

207
00:08:47,740 --> 00:08:45,139
haven't at least I'm very happy and

208
00:08:49,629 --> 00:08:47,750
thankful that they did this one but

209
00:08:51,309 --> 00:08:49,639
other people I've been talking about

210
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:51,319
this so I was kind of late to the scene

211
00:08:54,290 --> 00:08:52,050
writing about

212
00:08:55,639 --> 00:08:54,300
this to be honest although the media

213
00:08:57,590 --> 00:08:55,649
didn't pick up on this one

214
00:09:00,440 --> 00:08:57,600
so this is about Hillary Hillary

215
00:09:02,780 --> 00:09:00,450
Clinton's campaign chairman John Podesta

216
00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:02,790
I'm sure you've talked about him on your

217
00:09:08,990 --> 00:09:05,760
show before but he tweeted another UFO

218
00:09:10,550 --> 00:09:09,000
tweet he's done this before last time he

219
00:09:14,780 --> 00:09:10,560
did it was in February you might

220
00:09:16,220 --> 00:09:14,790
remember I'm I'm sure we talked about it

221
00:09:17,630 --> 00:09:16,230
you probably had talked about it with

222
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:17,640
other people on your show but he tweeted

223
00:09:22,910 --> 00:09:20,610
finally my biggest failure of 2014 once

224
00:09:25,819 --> 00:09:22,920
again not securing the disclosure of the

225
00:09:30,500 --> 00:09:25,829
UFO FILES any hash takes it the truth is

226
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:30,510
out there he's a big x-files fan and you

227
00:09:34,009 --> 00:09:32,010
know that's been known for a long time

228
00:09:38,420 --> 00:09:34,019
but his latest tweet didn't get so much

229
00:09:41,329 --> 00:09:38,430
media attention but this one said great

230
00:09:45,170 --> 00:09:41,339
interview Lena Dunham but Lena asked her

231
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:45,180
about aliens next time hashtag truth is

232
00:09:50,329 --> 00:09:47,610
out there and a cc'd at Hillary Clinton

233
00:09:54,740 --> 00:09:50,339
Lena Dunham people might know is the

234
00:09:57,230 --> 00:09:54,750
girl on girls now she's a writer and

235
00:09:58,970 --> 00:09:57,240
producer she created the show she also

236
00:10:02,180 --> 00:09:58,980
takes her clothes off a lot on the show

237
00:10:03,980 --> 00:10:02,190
I don't know yes no no I know who she is

238
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:03,990
yeah I don't know why she does that

239
00:10:07,639 --> 00:10:05,610
though to be honest it's like if you had

240
00:10:09,170 --> 00:10:07,649
a show if I had a show I wouldn't be

241
00:10:11,180 --> 00:10:09,180
taking my clothes off on it but that's

242
00:10:15,170 --> 00:10:11,190
just her thing she does it because she

243
00:10:17,300 --> 00:10:15,180
can yeah I guess so but she's a great

244
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:17,310
writer everybody loves her and she does

245
00:10:23,540 --> 00:10:20,730
this new email newsletter called Lenny

246
00:10:24,260 --> 00:10:23,550
with one of her co-producer co writers

247
00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:24,270
on the show

248
00:10:30,319 --> 00:10:27,570
Jenny Connor and in the first Lenny

249
00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:30,329
email was an interview with Hillary

250
00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:33,570
so Podesta is encouraging her to ask

251
00:10:38,269 --> 00:10:35,970
Hillary about aliens is he joking around

252
00:10:41,090 --> 00:10:38,279
is he being funny I don't know what the

253
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:41,100
heck's going on but people may remember

254
00:10:46,010 --> 00:10:44,490
that back in it was his early 2000s I

255
00:10:48,259 --> 00:10:46,020
believe when he did a talk at the

256
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:48,269
National Press Club it was a press

257
00:10:53,810 --> 00:10:51,050
conference that he joined Leslie Kane

258
00:10:55,819 --> 00:10:53,820
who had the Coalition for the freedom of

259
00:10:58,400 --> 00:10:55,829
information and he came out and he said

260
00:11:02,840 --> 00:10:58,410
you know we need to get information out

261
00:11:05,210 --> 00:11:02,850
about UFOs so he's a big UFO proponents

262
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:05,220
one of the questions I asked in this

263
00:11:10,550 --> 00:11:08,490
story is well even if someone asked

264
00:11:11,210 --> 00:11:10,560
Hillary about UFOs what would she have

265
00:11:15,530 --> 00:11:11,220
to say

266
00:11:19,550 --> 00:11:15,540
something grant Cameron actually got

267
00:11:21,050 --> 00:11:19,560
from the Clinton Library some letters my

268
00:11:24,530 --> 00:11:21,060
girlfriend makes fun of me because I say

269
00:11:28,100 --> 00:11:24,540
libary like rare rot I heard that yeah I

270
00:11:30,740 --> 00:11:28,110
did but in these files and we posted

271
00:11:33,949 --> 00:11:30,750
them online in this story

272
00:11:35,930 --> 00:11:33,959
Laurance Rockefeller it talks about how

273
00:11:38,930 --> 00:11:35,940
he is trying to talk to the president

274
00:11:42,139 --> 00:11:38,940
and Hillary about UFOs in getting them

275
00:11:44,930 --> 00:11:42,149
to do some sort of investigation into

276
00:11:46,999 --> 00:11:44,940
UFOs and in this these letters it shows

277
00:11:51,019 --> 00:11:47,009
that he has been working with Hillary

278
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:51,029
Clinton's office on this topic so pretty

279
00:11:56,569 --> 00:11:53,279
interesting Laurance Rockefeller is one

280
00:11:58,519 --> 00:11:56,579
of the big Rockefellers and he passed

281
00:12:00,829 --> 00:11:58,529
away unfortunately but he was really

282
00:12:03,730 --> 00:12:00,839
into UFOs and he funded some UFO

283
00:12:06,530 --> 00:12:03,740
projects yet there's still some ongoing

284
00:12:11,090 --> 00:12:06,540
well not from his funding yes

285
00:12:13,220 --> 00:12:11,100
no BLT research BLT but they ramped they

286
00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:13,230
weren't created for that they ran

287
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:14,970
through that funding Oh

288
00:12:22,129 --> 00:12:17,930
BLT exists Chris O'Brien did research

289
00:12:24,439 --> 00:12:22,139
using his money so I don't know maybe

290
00:12:27,050 --> 00:12:24,449
you could loosely say some of that but

291
00:12:30,650 --> 00:12:27,060
that really BLTs I've been researching

292
00:12:34,689 --> 00:12:30,660
this before and after all this whole

293
00:12:39,050 --> 00:12:34,699
affair well I did not know that yeah so

294
00:12:41,660 --> 00:12:39,060
BLT now is just just one person Nancy

295
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:41,670
Talbot really the others have passed

296
00:12:49,999 --> 00:12:46,800
away so she's all alone because it's so

297
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:50,009
anyway yes if she she's never talked

298
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:52,079
about her discussions on UFOs with

299
00:12:56,449 --> 00:12:53,130
laurance rockefeller

300
00:12:58,749 --> 00:12:56,459
so we'll see what she has to say Mother

301
00:13:02,629 --> 00:12:58,759
Jones wrote a story not too long ago

302
00:13:04,759 --> 00:13:02,639
about you know Podesta's tweet and they

303
00:13:06,910 --> 00:13:04,769
interviewed Steven Bassett and they

304
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:06,920
asked Hillary Clinton's then

305
00:13:11,329 --> 00:13:08,610
non-campaign it was before she

306
00:13:13,759 --> 00:13:11,339
officially announced she was running you

307
00:13:15,530 --> 00:13:13,769
know about UFOs and they wrote Mother

308
00:13:18,350 --> 00:13:15,540
Jones and they said our nan

309
00:13:20,290 --> 00:13:18,360
campaign has a strict policy of not

310
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:20,300
commenting on extraterrestrial activity

311
00:13:28,220 --> 00:13:25,170
but the truth is out there they're being

312
00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:28,230
cute so yeah so this should be cool of

313
00:13:34,460 --> 00:13:30,690
course Jimmy Kimmel's asked Clinton and

314
00:13:36,350 --> 00:13:34,470
Obama about UFOs so if she is on the

315
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:36,360
Jimmy Kimmel show which I'm sure is

316
00:13:39,650 --> 00:13:37,530
inevitable

317
00:13:42,290 --> 00:13:39,660
I'm sure he'll ask her about the whole

318
00:13:45,290 --> 00:13:42,300
thing now and I agree 100% with you she

319
00:13:47,270 --> 00:13:45,300
already has an answer lined up yeah I

320
00:13:49,940 --> 00:13:47,280
think she probably does have a canvas a

321
00:13:53,870 --> 00:13:49,950
response ready to go that is probably

322
00:13:56,270 --> 00:13:53,880
some sort of joke if it is a joke which

323
00:13:59,810 --> 00:13:56,280
is not necessarily the best you know

324
00:14:02,240 --> 00:13:59,820
comedian she's sitting there her jokes

325
00:14:05,180 --> 00:14:02,250
often do not go across well but

326
00:14:06,650 --> 00:14:05,190
sometimes they do but if it is a joke I

327
00:14:07,730 --> 00:14:06,660
hope it there's a little bit of some

328
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:07,740
kind of stab at that

329
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:11,130
Clinton bill for his interest that'd be

330
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:16,530
cute we'll see what happens

331
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:21,690
for that's bill thing not mine you know

332
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:24,210
that would be a good one maybe yeah yeah

333
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:26,730
so what else is happening yeah otherwise

334
00:14:32,180 --> 00:14:30,000
UFOs stories out there we have a story a

335
00:14:35,690 --> 00:14:32,190
couple written by Roger Mars which is a

336
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:35,700
MUFON stories and one of those that we

337
00:14:41,180 --> 00:14:37,770
posted yesterday is getting a lot of

338
00:14:44,630 --> 00:14:41,190
hits actually and this is a lady who

339
00:14:47,170 --> 00:14:44,640
says she heard some Jets on October 1st

340
00:14:51,140 --> 00:14:47,180
she went outside to check it out and

341
00:14:55,820 --> 00:14:51,150
these were jets that were chasing a UFO

342
00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:55,830
a cylindrical type of UFO so that's kind

343
00:14:59,810 --> 00:14:58,050
of a weird story there's no pictures or

344
00:15:02,390 --> 00:14:59,820
videos on this one but it's just

345
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:02,400
anecdotal but yeah that's pretty

346
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:05,610
interesting story I like I like those

347
00:15:10,130 --> 00:15:08,010
stories because that I have a friend

348
00:15:12,140 --> 00:15:10,140
that lives in Canada I've mentioned this

349
00:15:15,050 --> 00:15:12,150
on their show a couple times and he was

350
00:15:16,610 --> 00:15:15,060
at a party at his house and everyone was

351
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:16,620
out on the deck when he said everyone

352
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:19,530
you know like 15 or so people were out

353
00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:21,330
on the deck and they heard they heard

354
00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:25,110
these Jets two jets flying in right

355
00:15:31,460 --> 00:15:29,040
right in front of them was a disc Wow

356
00:15:34,340 --> 00:15:31,470
that you know the next day he looked in

357
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:34,350
the paper said there was nothing and a

358
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:36,000
couple of his friends have spoken about

359
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:38,610
it but so this does happen and the thing

360
00:15:43,850 --> 00:15:41,730
I mentioned last week when I had John

361
00:15:45,379 --> 00:15:43,860
Alexander on the show I said what about

362
00:15:48,139 --> 00:15:45,389
these people that are in the Jets that

363
00:15:49,420 --> 00:15:48,149
are chasing these UFOs you never really

364
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:49,430
hear them talk about it

365
00:15:55,780 --> 00:15:53,310
mm-hmm and you know you don't you really

366
00:16:01,930 --> 00:15:55,790
don't hear after that what do you say

367
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:07,160
you know it's happened you know it seems

368
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:08,850
like this sort of thing happens on a

369
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:11,370
regular basis at least in the Blue Book

370
00:16:18,530 --> 00:16:15,120
Files we have the famous 1952 Washington

371
00:16:20,590 --> 00:16:18,540
incident which was actually a flap of

372
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:20,600
incidents that happened in Washington

373
00:16:25,699 --> 00:16:23,279
they talked about it happening in San

374
00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:25,709
Diego and other areas at the time and

375
00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:28,649
essentially the pilots when they used to

376
00:16:33,769 --> 00:16:31,500
talk about it way back then before 1969

377
00:16:36,139 --> 00:16:33,779
when they closed Blue Book they used to

378
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:36,149
say we chased them they were too fast I

379
00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:38,490
don't know what it was it was gone by

380
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:40,110
the time I got there and that's about it

381
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:41,850
like these kind of cat-and-mouse games

382
00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:44,730
now we never hear about it other than

383
00:16:50,509 --> 00:16:48,000
these witnesses so it appears to so

384
00:16:50,990 --> 00:16:50,519
possibly this whole countin most kind of

385
00:16:54,110 --> 00:16:51,000
gamed

386
00:16:55,819 --> 00:16:54,120
type of stuff still goes on right yes

387
00:16:58,370 --> 00:16:55,829
yep how weird is that

388
00:17:00,590 --> 00:16:58,380
yeah yep in a another friend of mine had

389
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:00,600
a sighting similar to you know with two

390
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:03,690
Jets so yeah it does me really make you

391
00:17:07,970 --> 00:17:05,610
wonder well so what's the last story of

392
00:17:10,189 --> 00:17:07,980
the day alright the last story quickly

393
00:17:12,169 --> 00:17:10,199
here is really cool because I know we've

394
00:17:14,360 --> 00:17:12,179
gone a while but this is in a remote

395
00:17:15,949 --> 00:17:14,370
area in Oregon this is really neat

396
00:17:18,980 --> 00:17:15,959
there's these guys that are doing an

397
00:17:21,679 --> 00:17:18,990
off-road motorcycle tour across some

398
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:21,689
remote parts of Oregon they were camping

399
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:23,970
out and they saw some weird bikes in the

400
00:17:28,250 --> 00:17:26,640
sky in fact you know they submitted some

401
00:17:30,289 --> 00:17:28,260
pictures and you can see it here they

402
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,299
said these orange orbs kind of dropped

403
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:32,640
from it but the pictures are pretty neat

404
00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:34,530
people have to check these out

405
00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:36,390
and what's really cool is in that then

406
00:17:40,370 --> 00:17:38,820
the first picture I lightened up the

407
00:17:42,890 --> 00:17:40,380
picture and it's just a really neat

408
00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:42,900
effect where you see these light

409
00:17:46,220 --> 00:17:44,910
and it looks pretty weird so another

410
00:17:48,740 --> 00:17:46,230
cool sighting people are gonna have to

411
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:48,750
check out it open mindset TV yes and all

412
00:17:51,890 --> 00:17:50,370
those links to these stories we're

413
00:17:55,090 --> 00:17:51,900
talking about will be in our show notes

414
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:55,100
on podcast UFO well great thanks so much

415
00:17:59,030 --> 00:17:57,840
no problem thank you all right and we'll

416
00:18:01,820 --> 00:17:59,040
be talking to you next week

417
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,830
all right doctor soon all right hang in

418
00:18:05,540 --> 00:18:03,840
everyone for this quick little music

419
00:19:50,740 --> 00:18:05,550
break we'll be right back with our guest

420
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:54,650
hello Ron Felber how are you I'm just

421
00:20:02,000 --> 00:19:57,840
fine miss Martin it is yes thank you for

422
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:02,010
joining us and fraud this is up

423
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:03,840
I guess you're making the rounds you've

424
00:20:09,170 --> 00:20:05,370
been on a couple of other shows lately

425
00:20:11,630 --> 00:20:09,180
and welcome to this show and you have a

426
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:11,640
book it's kind of outside of what your

427
00:20:18,020 --> 00:20:15,810
you have normally written and let's

428
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:18,030
let's give the listener for someone who

429
00:20:22,370 --> 00:20:20,370
hasn't heard you your background

430
00:20:24,020 --> 00:20:22,380
basically you ran a company you were a

431
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:24,030
police officer at one time you did all

432
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:28,770
kinds of things really I went to

433
00:20:33,380 --> 00:20:31,050
Georgetown University and actually when

434
00:20:37,070 --> 00:20:33,390
I graduated it was in the middle of a

435
00:20:38,780 --> 00:20:37,080
lot of economic turmoil so actually I

436
00:20:42,110 --> 00:20:38,790
couldn't get a job in business which is

437
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:42,120
what I wanted so the police department

438
00:20:51,370 --> 00:20:45,200
as a federal marshal would pay for

439
00:20:53,630 --> 00:20:51,380
graduate school so I was a in the police

440
00:20:56,150 --> 00:20:53,640
operations transporting a federal

441
00:21:00,650 --> 00:20:56,160
prisoners for about three years while I

442
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:00,660
worked on a master's degree and after

443
00:21:04,250 --> 00:21:02,610
that fortunately I was able to land a

444
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:04,260
job in business and wound up becoming

445
00:21:09,530 --> 00:21:07,290
CEO of a pretty large company about two

446
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:09,540
hundred fifty million dollar industrial

447
00:21:15,170 --> 00:21:12,240
chemical company and then I got my

448
00:21:17,090 --> 00:21:15,180
doctorate in in Arts and Letters and and

449
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:17,100
I've been writing for my entire life

450
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:20,730
Wow so this book that we're going to be

451
00:21:27,290 --> 00:21:24,090
talking about tonight it's quite quite

452
00:21:30,650 --> 00:21:27,300
an incident or ongoing or possibly

453
00:21:34,220 --> 00:21:30,660
ongoing incident and the title of your

454
00:21:37,780 --> 00:21:34,230
book is called Mojave incident and it's

455
00:21:41,930 --> 00:21:37,790
inspired by a chilling story of alien

456
00:21:45,260 --> 00:21:41,940
abduction and you have that the two

457
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:45,270
character the two main characters in

458
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:49,050
this book that this account is told of

459
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:50,730
they're anonymous

460
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:53,760
is that right yes we use the name Tom

461
00:21:57,509 --> 00:21:54,610
and Ally's give

462
00:22:01,380 --> 00:21:57,519
and frankly the reason is there they

463
00:22:04,110 --> 00:22:01,390
have children and and they were just

464
00:22:06,210 --> 00:22:04,120
reluctant to to come forward at all as a

465
00:22:07,470 --> 00:22:06,220
matter of fact when I first was

466
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:07,480
introduced them it was through a

467
00:22:13,169 --> 00:22:09,970
business friend who had played football

468
00:22:16,380 --> 00:22:13,179
college football with the gentlemen Tom

469
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:16,390
Gifford in the story his wife Elise and

470
00:22:21,659 --> 00:22:19,090
he was an all-state football player now

471
00:22:24,810 --> 00:22:21,669
he had had this experience this is UFO

472
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:24,820
alien abduction experience sustained for

473
00:22:29,399 --> 00:22:27,250
eight hours conscious for hours that was

474
00:22:32,460 --> 00:22:29,409
recovered through through a

475
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:32,470
retrogressive hypnosis but by and large

476
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:34,450
and they did not want to talk about this

477
00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:36,730
they went to their parents with it and

478
00:22:44,669 --> 00:22:41,110
they were met with I guess empathy but

479
00:22:48,389 --> 00:22:44,679
not necessarily belief and I think that

480
00:22:50,549 --> 00:22:48,399
that really made this like a deep dark

481
00:22:53,669 --> 00:22:50,559
secret that they held inside for a long

482
00:22:56,549 --> 00:22:53,679
time and my friend introduced a mutual

483
00:22:58,560 --> 00:22:56,559
friend introduced us the idea was well

484
00:23:00,509 --> 00:22:58,570
maybe it would be helpful to them to

485
00:23:02,970 --> 00:23:00,519
tell their story and get it out and have

486
00:23:04,620 --> 00:23:02,980
you know cathartic in some way and from

487
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:04,630
my standpoint he knew I was a writer and

488
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:06,490
at first I said that I had no interest

489
00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:10,210
in an alien abduction story but once I

490
00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:11,760
heard the story and realized how

491
00:23:18,570 --> 00:23:14,710
significant it was I had no choice but

492
00:23:22,529 --> 00:23:18,580
to write in okay there's a little bit of

493
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:22,539
an issue the producer of the show the

494
00:23:27,659 --> 00:23:25,600
life runs a live portion his saying

495
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:27,669
there's a look that she believes that

496
00:23:35,870 --> 00:23:29,919
your headset may not be connected do you

497
00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:35,880
have do you have a Mac or a PC PC yeah

498
00:23:40,350 --> 00:23:38,320
there is echo we talked about that

499
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:40,360
earlier and I'm sorry to the listener

500
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:43,210
for we're bringing this up during the

501
00:23:49,259 --> 00:23:46,090
show but can you just verify that that

502
00:23:51,419 --> 00:23:49,269
is you want to go to options tools and

503
00:23:55,139 --> 00:23:51,429
audio and just make sure that that

504
00:23:56,399 --> 00:23:55,149
headset is connected yeah I will and so

505
00:23:59,879 --> 00:23:56,409
all right very good

506
00:24:01,889 --> 00:23:59,889
I'll do that right now okay so I'll be

507
00:24:02,850 --> 00:24:01,899
while you're doing that I'm sure you'll

508
00:24:10,370 --> 00:24:02,860
be able to hear me I'm going to be

509
00:24:15,630 --> 00:24:12,390
yeah you want to make sure that you

510
00:24:23,250 --> 00:24:15,640
select the USB mic under the options and

511
00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:23,260
audio okay so when there's always a

512
00:24:28,170 --> 00:24:25,360
little bit of a mystique when someone

513
00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:28,180
doesn't come forward and say who they

514
00:24:35,250 --> 00:24:32,230
are and they have a story like this

515
00:24:37,140 --> 00:24:35,260
do they ever plan on eventually talking

516
00:24:39,330 --> 00:24:37,150
about it publicly and say after their

517
00:24:42,060 --> 00:24:39,340
kids are through school or anything like

518
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:42,070
that well that could well be you know I

519
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:43,810
have no way of knowing that at this

520
00:24:48,090 --> 00:24:45,850
point but frankly you know if you think

521
00:24:50,730 --> 00:24:48,100
about it these are you know this was a

522
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:50,740
fellow who was running a construction

523
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:55,120
project management job from major

524
00:24:59,450 --> 00:24:56,770
construction company that's building

525
00:25:01,770 --> 00:24:59,460
balls and things of that nature so that

526
00:25:05,970 --> 00:25:01,780
you know it's a highly responsible

527
00:25:10,110 --> 00:25:05,980
position and really I say I think

528
00:25:12,990 --> 00:25:10,120
between that and just just the idea of

529
00:25:15,210 --> 00:25:13,000
their kid being be made fun of her

530
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:15,220
arrest or whatever that they they at

531
00:25:20,370 --> 00:25:18,250
this stage of the game game anyway you

532
00:25:22,740 --> 00:25:20,380
know just just don't want to talk about

533
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:22,750
it that way but I think what makes this

534
00:25:29,810 --> 00:25:27,010
incredibly real is the two major doctors

535
00:25:33,150 --> 00:25:29,820
examined you know one is uh is dr.

536
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:33,160
Bernard two-tone who is a director of

537
00:25:37,770 --> 00:25:34,480
the National Center for psychiatric

538
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:37,780
disorders in Washington DC and William

539
00:25:42,180 --> 00:25:39,730
annexed her from Mountain Psychiatric

540
00:25:46,380 --> 00:25:42,190
Center in Asheville North Carolina and

541
00:25:48,330 --> 00:25:46,390
both I mean we're really blown away by

542
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:48,340
the story and buying the authenticity of

543
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:50,770
these people an extra call it the most

544
00:25:55,850 --> 00:25:52,480
compelling case of its kind I've ever

545
00:25:58,650 --> 00:25:55,860
encountered the tone said highly unusual

546
00:26:02,520 --> 00:25:58,660
traumatizing events outside the realm of

547
00:26:04,730 --> 00:26:02,530
normal human experience and actually

548
00:26:08,460 --> 00:26:04,740
annexed her and these are in a very

549
00:26:10,860 --> 00:26:08,470
let's say understated people when you

550
00:26:13,890 --> 00:26:10,870
say what do you think happened you said

551
00:26:15,930 --> 00:26:13,900
when you look at the possibilities yes I

552
00:26:19,380 --> 00:26:15,940
believe that what they say happened to

553
00:26:20,170 --> 00:26:19,390
them happened and I feel the same way

554
00:26:26,410 --> 00:26:20,180
and

555
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:26,420
story a lot of its based on transcripts

556
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:30,410
from either the retrogressive hypnosis

557
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:33,290
sessions or from my interviews with them

558
00:26:38,350 --> 00:26:36,290
but again these are two people college

559
00:26:41,950 --> 00:26:38,360
graduates both one is a mother of two

560
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:41,960
kids at the time third on the way the

561
00:26:45,670 --> 00:26:43,730
husband is a you know as a responsible

562
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:45,680
job they have a mortgage they're you

563
00:26:51,970 --> 00:26:47,810
know the backbone of America kind of

564
00:26:53,620 --> 00:26:51,980
people and this is just something they

565
00:26:56,140 --> 00:26:53,630
didn't want this is something they

566
00:27:00,130 --> 00:26:56,150
didn't need and frankly I'm pretty sure

567
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:00,140
they were at a crossroads and could

568
00:27:03,460 --> 00:27:01,910
decide do I go down this road or that

569
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:03,470
one they would not go down this road

570
00:27:07,150 --> 00:27:04,640
they would have preferred it never

571
00:27:09,730 --> 00:27:07,160
happened to them yeah getting back to

572
00:27:14,860 --> 00:27:09,740
your sound did you figure that out

573
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:14,870
yeah I mean I I how are we doing now it

574
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:18,170
still sounds basically the same and so

575
00:27:23,380 --> 00:27:20,930
did you my tools

576
00:27:24,850 --> 00:27:23,390
I'm Scott's Coppola Skype Wi-Fi but you

577
00:27:28,540 --> 00:27:24,860
want to go to options I think you said

578
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:28,550
right under audio settings let's see I

579
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:32,000
have tools tools okay let me just see

580
00:27:41,140 --> 00:27:38,480
one more time audio saying yeah options

581
00:27:43,660 --> 00:27:41,150
tools audio all right artists settings

582
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:43,670
here we are yeah and then you select

583
00:27:52,930 --> 00:27:49,520
your USB mic all right it says this

584
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:52,940
microphone that's on it [\h__\h] should say

585
00:27:58,840 --> 00:27:55,250
it should say the particular microphone

586
00:28:00,700 --> 00:27:58,850
it says desktop microphone HD 3000 it

587
00:28:04,180 --> 00:28:00,710
does say that right now yes now maybe

588
00:28:05,890 --> 00:28:04,190
it's a it's on you know it's sort of to

589
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:05,900
the right of the center maybe I want to

590
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:07,760
tone it down a bit

591
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:10,850
no if that if you if there should be a

592
00:28:14,020 --> 00:28:12,320
drop-down and if it

593
00:28:16,420 --> 00:28:14,030
why don't you tap on it there's the

594
00:28:19,090 --> 00:28:16,430
drop-down and it says desktop microphone

595
00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:19,100
and then microphone Realtek maybe I want

596
00:28:34,419 --> 00:28:31,419
okay for the listening audience I do

597
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:34,429
apologize for this we did try to check

598
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:35,600
this out earlier so there won't be a

599
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:40,370
problem so hopefully he's going to

600
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:43,370
figure out to put it back to where the

601
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:49,840
setting was any minute now meanwhile

602
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:52,730
okay that'll work you know whatever

603
00:28:57,639 --> 00:28:55,120
happened you you went you went to

604
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:57,649
stealth there for a while so yeah back

605
00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:01,039
okay so that's enough we'll move on with

606
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:02,240
this right now

607
00:29:07,180 --> 00:29:04,130
can you explain to the listening

608
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:07,190
audience tell them the story on how this

609
00:29:13,509 --> 00:29:09,610
whole thing came about well sure

610
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:13,519
basically this would be Tom and Elise

611
00:29:18,399 --> 00:29:15,919
Gifford again now I told you their

612
00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:18,409
backgrounds somewhat one is the young

613
00:29:24,549 --> 00:29:21,950
mother and basically wanted to you know

614
00:29:27,759 --> 00:29:24,559
get out she was in a house with kids and

615
00:29:29,860 --> 00:29:27,769
and you know wanted a night out wanted a

616
00:29:32,759 --> 00:29:29,870
small vacation from the from the

617
00:29:35,950 --> 00:29:32,769
children and the husband in the meantime

618
00:29:37,899 --> 00:29:35,960
wanted to go hunting and so there was a

619
00:29:40,570 --> 00:29:37,909
reason for that he had missed a mule

620
00:29:42,190 --> 00:29:40,580
deer shot a year before as his father

621
00:29:43,509 --> 00:29:42,200
and brother gave him a relentless hard

622
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:43,519
time about it he wanted to vindicate

623
00:29:50,860 --> 00:29:47,090
himself what they decided to do was to

624
00:29:53,470 --> 00:29:50,870
do both so they'd go dancing and do a

625
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:53,480
little gambling listen to some music at

626
00:29:59,860 --> 00:29:55,730
a place called whiskey Pete near mid

627
00:30:03,070 --> 00:29:59,870
hills campsite and after that he would

628
00:30:04,690 --> 00:30:03,080
spend the next day hunting and that

629
00:30:06,639 --> 00:30:04,700
would be a kind of compromise they

630
00:30:09,610 --> 00:30:06,649
worked out so what happened basically

631
00:30:11,409 --> 00:30:09,620
was they did go to whiskey Pete when

632
00:30:14,409 --> 00:30:11,419
they got to mid Hills campsite

633
00:30:16,750 --> 00:30:14,419
it was completely sold out and so they

634
00:30:18,909 --> 00:30:16,760
wound up going into the part of the

635
00:30:22,990 --> 00:30:18,919
Mojave Desert which he was quite

636
00:30:26,529 --> 00:30:23,000
familiar with around dusk and they made

637
00:30:28,029 --> 00:30:26,539
a campfire they fried up some steaks had

638
00:30:31,539 --> 00:30:28,039
a glass of wine we're looking at the

639
00:30:35,649 --> 00:30:31,549
Stars identifying stars and what happens

640
00:30:37,940 --> 00:30:35,659
after that is nothing short of you know

641
00:30:39,980 --> 00:30:37,950
sensational because

642
00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:39,990
basically you know I got maybe I'll read

643
00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:44,940
a little bit of this Tom had said to her

644
00:30:48,259 --> 00:30:46,740
well this is a double star and that's

645
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:48,269
why it's so bright she says well that's

646
00:30:51,409 --> 00:30:50,010
a double star these must be triples

647
00:30:54,769 --> 00:30:51,419
because they're a lot bigger and

648
00:30:56,419 --> 00:30:54,779
brighter than that so basically they

649
00:30:59,570 --> 00:30:56,429
talk about weather balloons they talk

650
00:31:02,169 --> 00:30:59,580
about the possibility of a desert

651
00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:02,179
warfare exercise or military exercises

652
00:31:10,639 --> 00:31:07,049
but these things start glowing lights

653
00:31:13,250 --> 00:31:10,649
nine of them start flashing signals to

654
00:31:16,180 --> 00:31:13,260
one another they form a configuration on

655
00:31:18,620 --> 00:31:16,190
the horizon of a large sprawling M and

656
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:18,630
then they're joined by hundreds of

657
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:21,600
others that start dropping down to the

658
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:24,240
desert floor now there are no roads

659
00:31:28,940 --> 00:31:27,120
there or anything of that type but these

660
00:31:30,580 --> 00:31:28,950
are rushing towards them and what's

661
00:31:35,930 --> 00:31:30,590
rushing towards them are not the craft

662
00:31:38,570 --> 00:31:35,940
but red eyes beings with red eyes so

663
00:31:40,730 --> 00:31:38,580
this guy being a hunter has a browning

664
00:31:42,590 --> 00:31:40,740
shotgun and his first response is you

665
00:31:45,740 --> 00:31:42,600
know I'm going to protect my my wife I'm

666
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:45,750
going to protect myself and they get

667
00:31:50,060 --> 00:31:48,210
telepathic messages you know don't try

668
00:31:52,340 --> 00:31:50,070
and do that get in the back of the

669
00:31:55,310 --> 00:31:52,350
camper so they go in the back of the

670
00:31:57,799 --> 00:31:55,320
camper and they're sort of monitored

671
00:32:03,440 --> 00:31:57,809
there by two electrical fields - like

672
00:32:05,299 --> 00:32:03,450
stumps of like a hologram now that's it

673
00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:05,309
did this happen right away as soon as

674
00:32:09,409 --> 00:32:07,110
they got in the camper yeah actually

675
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:09,419
these these eyes were rushing towards

676
00:32:14,450 --> 00:32:11,610
them and he was going to offend the law

677
00:32:16,430 --> 00:32:14,460
but the first thing he did then was to

678
00:32:18,649 --> 00:32:16,440
go with his wife in the back of the

679
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:18,659
camper and so yeah that didn't take a

680
00:32:23,899 --> 00:32:22,080
lot of deliberation and the wife Elise

681
00:32:25,759 --> 00:32:23,909
heard it first said don't you hear what

682
00:32:28,669 --> 00:32:25,769
they're telling you if you try to harm

683
00:32:30,379 --> 00:32:28,679
them they'll kill you and so they go in

684
00:32:33,409 --> 00:32:30,389
the back of the camper sit indian-style

685
00:32:38,210 --> 00:32:33,419
shotgun across his lap holding each

686
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:38,220
other literally and watching watching

687
00:32:46,730 --> 00:32:42,559
these these gremlin life beings like

688
00:32:50,430 --> 00:32:46,740
roustabout the the camper soon a huge

689
00:32:54,690 --> 00:32:50,440
UFO the size of a football field

690
00:32:58,499 --> 00:32:54,700
that domes actually the valley comes

691
00:33:00,299 --> 00:32:58,509
over them nine illuminated beings and

692
00:33:01,710 --> 00:33:00,309
there are some very good descriptions

693
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:01,720
and that's what I think it's very

694
00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:03,730
special about this account because it's

695
00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:05,350
conscious because they're both together

696
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:07,840
pinching each other literally you know

697
00:33:13,619 --> 00:33:10,450
can we just back up a little bit okay so

698
00:33:15,330 --> 00:33:13,629
first of all they see this this the

699
00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:15,340
stars in a distance and they make a

700
00:33:20,129 --> 00:33:17,230
formation like an MFI remember right

701
00:33:22,259 --> 00:33:20,139
into a book and all that and then they

702
00:33:24,330 --> 00:33:22,269
see these things dropping maybe hundreds

703
00:33:25,919 --> 00:33:24,340
of them and they're all heading toward

704
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:25,929
them and that's before they even saw the

705
00:33:31,470 --> 00:33:29,049
domed that's correct so that was like

706
00:33:33,539 --> 00:33:31,480
often supposedly off must have been off

707
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:33,549
in the distance or something and well

708
00:33:39,990 --> 00:33:37,450
actually what I think happened was the

709
00:33:44,249 --> 00:33:40,000
the craft that they saw were other than

710
00:33:46,289 --> 00:33:44,259
the large craft and perhaps miniature

711
00:33:48,389 --> 00:33:46,299
versions of the large craft in other

712
00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:48,399
words this these were these were much

713
00:33:53,490 --> 00:33:50,740
smaller unit that dropped down from the

714
00:33:55,919 --> 00:33:53,500
sky they seemed to be abandoned the

715
00:33:57,779 --> 00:33:55,929
beings came rushing towards them they

716
00:33:59,669 --> 00:33:57,789
were captained once they were in the

717
00:34:02,430 --> 00:33:59,679
camper they they realized they were

718
00:34:04,580 --> 00:34:02,440
capped by this yuju fo and again some

719
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:04,590
really you know very specific

720
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:06,970
descriptions about about all of these

721
00:34:14,369 --> 00:34:10,720
things and and then these illuminated

722
00:34:16,710 --> 00:34:14,379
beings that are so shiny that they

723
00:34:20,190 --> 00:34:16,720
closed the curtains but it does no good

724
00:34:22,379 --> 00:34:20,200
the light start certain circling the

725
00:34:24,690 --> 00:34:22,389
camper and putting them through some

726
00:34:27,809 --> 00:34:24,700
mental gymnastics that are nothing short

727
00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:27,819
of torture hmm and this was all all

728
00:34:34,379 --> 00:34:30,609
telepathic this was telepathic

729
00:34:37,619 --> 00:34:34,389
absolutely correct right and so were

730
00:34:40,710 --> 00:34:37,629
they actually seeing visions or was this

731
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:40,720
just all like words coming into their

732
00:34:46,169 --> 00:34:43,810
their mind words but not just words full

733
00:34:51,599 --> 00:34:46,179
scenarios where they were really made to

734
00:34:55,530 --> 00:34:51,609
relive specific traumatic some exulting

735
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:55,540
some some horrible experiences in their

736
00:34:59,730 --> 00:34:56,050
life

737
00:35:00,960 --> 00:34:59,740
for example of Alize had been molested

738
00:35:04,530 --> 00:35:00,970
as a child this was

739
00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:04,540
and she was reliving the earth why on

740
00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:07,089
earth would that they're trying to

741
00:35:12,089 --> 00:35:09,760
traumatize to see how people react I

742
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:12,099
mean this is all speculative of course

743
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:15,010
but is that is that what you're you got

744
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:18,400
out of this absolutely by the way when

745
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:22,569
when Belize is hypnotized she makes it

746
00:35:27,170 --> 00:35:24,490
very clear that that's exactly what the

747
00:35:30,839 --> 00:35:27,180
you know what the situation was like

748
00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:30,849
because of the end she she says you know

749
00:35:36,930 --> 00:35:33,760
that they don't have emotions like we do

750
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:36,940
and they need need us to teach them they

751
00:35:42,750 --> 00:35:39,490
need to understand humans now this is

752
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:42,760
not anything benevolent this is like a

753
00:35:47,940 --> 00:35:45,010
scientific experiment they're putting

754
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:47,950
them through their paces to see how they

755
00:35:53,329 --> 00:35:50,890
react to see what crying is like what

756
00:35:56,130 --> 00:35:53,339
history is like what terror is like and

757
00:35:57,710 --> 00:35:56,140
and these people are trapped in the back

758
00:36:03,240 --> 00:35:57,720
of the camper undergoing these things

759
00:36:05,490 --> 00:36:03,250
well and how how long did this I

760
00:36:07,770 --> 00:36:05,500
understand that they possibly went on

761
00:36:10,650 --> 00:36:07,780
board and all that but how long did this

762
00:36:12,750 --> 00:36:10,660
last it sounds like you know every

763
00:36:16,950 --> 00:36:12,760
second would be feel like an hour or no

764
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:16,960
situation is what they talk about and

765
00:36:23,010 --> 00:36:19,810
actually when they awaken in the morning

766
00:36:25,410 --> 00:36:23,020
they're outside the camper the fire is

767
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:25,420
you know run out the fire is asked out

768
00:36:32,250 --> 00:36:28,720
and they don't know how they got out of

769
00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:32,260
the camper but that was recovered again

770
00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:36,640
to retrogressive hypnosis but the

771
00:36:41,660 --> 00:36:39,609
conscious experience was sustained and I

772
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:41,670
would say in the area of six hours

773
00:36:48,270 --> 00:36:45,839
what mmm that's that's a long long time

774
00:36:51,059 --> 00:36:48,280
here's there's a quote by the way just

775
00:36:53,339 --> 00:36:51,069
to give you a feel for the the emotional

776
00:36:56,609 --> 00:36:53,349
trauma here this is from Tom Gifford

777
00:36:58,290 --> 00:36:56,619
when he first sees what's going on when

778
00:36:59,579 --> 00:36:58,300
we first saw them dropping from the sky

779
00:37:02,010 --> 00:36:59,589
we thought it was some kind of military

780
00:37:04,319 --> 00:37:02,020
maneuver maybe for Operation Desert

781
00:37:06,930 --> 00:37:04,329
Storm but it was too massive even for

782
00:37:09,329 --> 00:37:06,940
that I mean there were hundreds of them

783
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:09,339
falling then rushing toward us so I

784
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:11,530
kicked out the campfire grabbed my gun

785
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:13,010
and ran into the back

786
00:37:17,230 --> 00:37:15,170
the camper with the leads then we sat

787
00:37:20,350 --> 00:37:17,240
there indian-style waiting till they

788
00:37:23,890 --> 00:37:20,360
came hundreds of them pairs of tiny red

789
00:37:26,740 --> 00:37:23,900
eyes glowing in the dark around us why

790
00:37:29,020 --> 00:37:26,750
didn't they it seems to me that if I saw

791
00:37:31,780 --> 00:37:29,030
mice I'm just thinking of how I would

792
00:37:34,420 --> 00:37:31,790
react or how I think I'd react I don't

793
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:34,430
know if I would but if I saw all this

794
00:37:40,330 --> 00:37:37,520
happening I would get in that camper

795
00:37:43,270 --> 00:37:40,340
truck whatever it is and floor it and

796
00:37:44,020 --> 00:37:43,280
had head back out of the desert as fast

797
00:37:46,420 --> 00:37:44,030
as I could

798
00:37:48,310 --> 00:37:46,430
did they consider doing that well the

799
00:37:50,530 --> 00:37:48,320
back of the cuz that's what they were

800
00:37:53,470 --> 00:37:50,540
instructed to do but this desert terrain

801
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:53,480
was so rough and this was the thing that

802
00:37:58,300 --> 00:37:55,850
first startled them how are these things

803
00:38:02,140 --> 00:37:58,310
rushing toward them when it's basically

804
00:38:05,020 --> 00:38:02,150
you know cactus and sand and really

805
00:38:07,270 --> 00:38:05,030
rough terrain rocky so how is this

806
00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:07,280
happening so if you're going to take a

807
00:38:11,940 --> 00:38:09,440
truck you wouldn't be flooring it in the

808
00:38:17,770 --> 00:38:11,950
dark mm-hm

809
00:38:20,110 --> 00:38:17,780
okay and now they had they had hypnosis

810
00:38:22,990 --> 00:38:20,120
and more things were uncovered yes

811
00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:23,000
basically but okay getting back to their

812
00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:26,240
their children did it was just them too

813
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:28,310
but they had kids at home or something

814
00:38:33,310 --> 00:38:29,810
like that yes that's correct

815
00:38:35,020 --> 00:38:33,320
yeah they left two children one that was

816
00:38:38,650 --> 00:38:35,030
two and one that was four with their

817
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:38,660
with their parents babysat okay so now

818
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:42,410
those kids are in their 30s yeah but

819
00:38:48,070 --> 00:38:46,010
actually she had another child was

820
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:48,080
became pregnant almost immediately after

821
00:38:53,740 --> 00:38:51,530
this experience so but the kids are

822
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:53,750
older basically that have six children

823
00:38:59,740 --> 00:38:56,450
now oh okay

824
00:39:01,360 --> 00:38:59,750
any hybrids just affect well you know

825
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:01,370
I'll tell you that that's a question

826
00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:04,210
that certainly one could ask with some

827
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:09,110
credibility let's say I think we have a

828
00:39:14,740 --> 00:39:11,680
question we have a chat room going and

829
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:14,750
do you think that dreams can uncover

830
00:39:21,070 --> 00:39:18,290
hidden memories well they have dreams

831
00:39:22,910 --> 00:39:21,080
like that more than dreams I mean they

832
00:39:26,210 --> 00:39:22,920
had really

833
00:39:29,359 --> 00:39:26,220
credible experiences afterwards that

834
00:39:30,500 --> 00:39:29,369
were quite terrifying where you know

835
00:39:34,940 --> 00:39:30,510
they felt like they were watched

836
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:34,950
constantly as a matter of fact one when

837
00:39:40,010 --> 00:39:38,130
when Elise became pregnant she was

838
00:39:45,020 --> 00:39:40,020
convinced they were in the room watching

839
00:39:48,079 --> 00:39:45,030
know and one evening late at night they

840
00:39:50,630 --> 00:39:48,089
hear their son screaming this would be a

841
00:39:52,549 --> 00:39:50,640
five year old at the time so they go

842
00:39:56,450 --> 00:39:52,559
running into his room and he's spinning

843
00:39:59,510 --> 00:39:56,460
like a top so the mother of course calms

844
00:40:01,819 --> 00:39:59,520
him down hugs him and are about to leave

845
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:01,829
and he said please don't leave and they

846
00:40:08,450 --> 00:40:04,650
say why because when you leave the

847
00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:08,460
monsters with the red eyes come oh boy

848
00:40:14,780 --> 00:40:12,569
so art did they openly as the children

849
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:14,790
became or at least some of them became

850
00:40:19,609 --> 00:40:16,770
adults did they openly talk to them

851
00:40:22,069 --> 00:40:19,619
about this whole experience I think that

852
00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,079
my understanding is that they they talk

853
00:40:25,849 --> 00:40:24,480
to the two older ones but again they're

854
00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:25,859
for children that are unaware of this

855
00:40:29,260 --> 00:40:27,390
and that's part of the other issue with

856
00:40:32,510 --> 00:40:29,270
the anonymity

857
00:40:34,430 --> 00:40:32,520
yeah by the way to get back to the

858
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:34,440
question that I kind of dug rest a bit

859
00:40:42,740 --> 00:40:39,650
I'm sorry the dreams reveal unconscious

860
00:40:47,420 --> 00:40:42,750
experiences yeah I think they do mm-hmm

861
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:47,430
and you mentioned earlier when we first

862
00:40:51,980 --> 00:40:48,720
started talking that there were two

863
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:51,990
different doctors maybe a psychiatrist

864
00:40:59,150 --> 00:40:56,010
or two people that two medical doctors

865
00:41:02,990 --> 00:40:59,160
now did they actually pay to have this

866
00:41:04,970 --> 00:41:03,000
either you did and it was but was it

867
00:41:09,049 --> 00:41:04,980
that couldn't have been cheap was it for

868
00:41:12,020 --> 00:41:09,059
the purpose of this book yes so you were

869
00:41:14,569 --> 00:41:12,030
you were looking at that time to see

870
00:41:16,460 --> 00:41:14,579
what kind of credibility or you wanted

871
00:41:18,349 --> 00:41:16,470
to confirm the credibility of these

872
00:41:20,210 --> 00:41:18,359
preneur they took polygraph tests - and

873
00:41:22,339 --> 00:41:20,220
the only reason actually that Elise

874
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:22,349
didn't Tom did was because she was

875
00:41:27,430 --> 00:41:25,850
pregnant and that involves electricity

876
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:27,440
they were weary of giving a pregnant

877
00:41:36,940 --> 00:41:30,650
woman poly branches and they path he

878
00:41:39,730 --> 00:41:36,950
passed yes Wow okay so let's talk

879
00:41:43,150 --> 00:41:39,740
further what what came out after they

880
00:41:45,820 --> 00:41:43,160
had the regression hypnotherapy yeah

881
00:41:48,430 --> 00:41:45,830
really some of the you know the book

882
00:41:53,260 --> 00:41:48,440
includes a lot of that and and the

883
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:53,270
reason you know is because it's so so

884
00:41:58,720 --> 00:41:57,290
powerful I think and and if he could

885
00:42:01,420 --> 00:41:58,730
have been there I have to say and I know

886
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:01,430
you weren't and you can't be there but

887
00:42:08,340 --> 00:42:04,370
you'd never forget it so here's a little

888
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:08,350
bit of album of a piece doctor an extra

889
00:42:13,660 --> 00:42:10,730
accepted her answer when she said that

890
00:42:16,060 --> 00:42:13,670
it was to unclear for her to articulate

891
00:42:18,340 --> 00:42:16,070
he turned to seek toward leaves who sat

892
00:42:20,170 --> 00:42:18,350
her body lacks health head tilted to one

893
00:42:21,940 --> 00:42:20,180
side lying on the right shoulder

894
00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:21,950
Elise do you have any idea what these

895
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:25,430
beings want or why they're here it was

896
00:42:29,530 --> 00:42:27,410
strange watching as Elise sprang up in

897
00:42:31,930 --> 00:42:29,540
her chair suddenly animated and alert

898
00:42:34,090 --> 00:42:31,940
her voice rather than soft and emotional

899
00:42:36,670 --> 00:42:34,100
took on a new cadence that was clicked

900
00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:36,680
and direct quite unlike her they want to

901
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:38,510
make contact with the population

902
00:42:43,390 --> 00:42:40,910
Tom and I are specimens imperfect like

903
00:42:45,460 --> 00:42:43,400
the human race when ready to communicate

904
00:42:48,370 --> 00:42:45,470
with them face to face then the world

905
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:48,380
will be too for actions such as such as

906
00:42:52,090 --> 00:42:50,090
edging forward in her chair at the

907
00:42:54,220 --> 00:42:52,100
moment seemed mechanical as did her

908
00:42:56,290 --> 00:42:54,230
voice as she continued they have to

909
00:42:58,180 --> 00:42:56,300
study our reactions so they know how to

910
00:43:00,640 --> 00:42:58,190
approach us they don't have emotions

911
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:00,650
like ours so they need us to teach them

912
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:03,650
they need to understand humans do you

913
00:43:07,570 --> 00:43:05,570
have a sense as to who they are and

914
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:07,580
where they come from there are five

915
00:43:12,250 --> 00:43:10,370
galaxies theirs is the next closest in

916
00:43:14,530 --> 00:43:12,260
order for all five galaxies to work

917
00:43:16,450 --> 00:43:14,540
together one day they have to start and

918
00:43:19,090 --> 00:43:16,460
they're starting with us so we'll be

919
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:19,100
United galaxies what else do you know an

920
00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:21,770
extra asked I know where the universe

921
00:43:27,250 --> 00:43:24,110
ends is that something you could put

922
00:43:30,250 --> 00:43:27,260
into words our universe ends where

923
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:30,260
there's begins our universe ends when

924
00:43:38,620 --> 00:43:32,930
all its matter stops mattering to us and

925
00:43:40,690 --> 00:43:38,630
start mattering to them now were you

926
00:43:43,029 --> 00:43:40,700
I'm not and I hope you don't take this

927
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:43,039
the wrong way but I'm not really big

928
00:43:50,170 --> 00:43:47,569
into excerpts being read but so I like

929
00:43:53,140 --> 00:43:50,180
I'd rather hear like more or less first

930
00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:53,150
first-hand accounts sure if you don't

931
00:43:59,049 --> 00:43:55,609
mind so were you in the room when this

932
00:44:01,150 --> 00:43:59,059
was Gloria and so tell me what that was

933
00:44:03,339 --> 00:44:01,160
like well I mean you could have heard a

934
00:44:08,019 --> 00:44:03,349
pin drop because you really felt like

935
00:44:10,359 --> 00:44:08,029
these people who were hypnotized and

936
00:44:12,849 --> 00:44:10,369
rather almost lethargic

937
00:44:17,950 --> 00:44:12,859
all of a sudden spring to life like and

938
00:44:19,749 --> 00:44:17,960
use words and verbage that that you

939
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:19,759
could never imagine that imagine them

940
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:24,490
using before very precise very concise

941
00:44:31,839 --> 00:44:28,880
like like like it wasn't them that was

942
00:44:34,089 --> 00:44:31,849
talking so that must have been pretty

943
00:44:38,859 --> 00:44:34,099
freaky to see you could have heard a pin

944
00:44:40,740 --> 00:44:38,869
drop yeah and now was sorry what was a

945
00:44:44,620 --> 00:44:40,750
what do you call the gentleman's name

946
00:44:45,130 --> 00:44:44,630
dr. Alec sir no no the man the husband

947
00:44:47,650 --> 00:44:45,140
and wife

948
00:44:51,009 --> 00:44:47,660
automata leaves I'm sorry Tom okay was

949
00:44:56,589 --> 00:44:51,019
Tom present during when his wife was

950
00:44:59,980 --> 00:44:56,599
being yes and vice versa first and and

951
00:45:02,190 --> 00:44:59,990
and that was really great because even

952
00:45:05,980 --> 00:45:02,200
there were covered memories you know

953
00:45:07,420 --> 00:45:05,990
linked with one another and even on the

954
00:45:08,620 --> 00:45:07,430
ship they were taken apart from each

955
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:08,630
other but they felt like they were

956
00:45:12,910 --> 00:45:11,119
together like telepathic bears you know

957
00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:12,920
they felt like they had this bond

958
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:14,569
between them of course husband and wife

959
00:45:23,170 --> 00:45:20,079
and then they were brought together and

960
00:45:26,170 --> 00:45:23,180
and they were both hypnotized together

961
00:45:29,499 --> 00:45:26,180
and that was that was equally intriguing

962
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:29,509
were there tapes made of the videotapes

963
00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:32,690
yes videotapes him well so someday those

964
00:45:37,359 --> 00:45:34,910
might come out oh absolutely I mean I

965
00:45:39,749 --> 00:45:37,369
have those tapes from yeah that kind of

966
00:45:41,950 --> 00:45:39,759
reminds me of the Betty and Barney Hill

967
00:45:45,009 --> 00:45:41,960
situation where they had you know do

968
00:45:46,190 --> 00:45:45,019
they had audio tapes but not yeah this

969
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:46,200
is something I think

970
00:45:51,079 --> 00:45:48,960
significant maybe to your listeners but

971
00:45:53,359 --> 00:45:51,089
you know of course I'm familiar with the

972
00:45:56,329 --> 00:45:53,369
Betty and Barney Hill and and some of

973
00:45:59,390 --> 00:45:56,339
the early UFO things and alien abduction

974
00:46:03,380 --> 00:45:59,400
type story but what makes this really

975
00:46:06,349 --> 00:46:03,390
very unique is the the fact that it's

976
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:06,359
sustained the fact that it's two people

977
00:46:13,310 --> 00:46:09,570
not one the fact that it's a conscious

978
00:46:17,990 --> 00:46:13,320
experience so the bulk of this you know

979
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:18,000
was conscious and maybe one third of it

980
00:46:24,170 --> 00:46:20,880
or 25% of it the quarter of it was

981
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:24,180
recaptured through through retrogressive

982
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:26,970
hypnosis so that you've got a conscious

983
00:46:30,020 --> 00:46:28,530
experience when people are literally

984
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:30,030
these two people are little literally

985
00:46:36,109 --> 00:46:32,400
pinching themselves saying what do you

986
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:36,119
see is even while the the saucer is this

987
00:46:39,829 --> 00:46:38,010
huge craft is hovering above them

988
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:39,839
there's another what they call a

989
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:43,290
searcher that's that's coming the desert

990
00:46:49,819 --> 00:46:46,560
basin apparently mining miracles become

991
00:46:51,980 --> 00:46:49,829
mining minerals and this is a place

992
00:46:53,630 --> 00:46:51,990
where alumax for example gets exotic

993
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:53,640
metals and what on for use for laser

994
00:46:59,150 --> 00:46:56,640
weaponry etc and they could see this

995
00:47:04,390 --> 00:46:59,160
what they call the triangular you know

996
00:47:08,540 --> 00:47:04,400
crab combing the desert basin sucking up

997
00:47:11,690 --> 00:47:08,550
material from the desert basin so it's

998
00:47:15,079 --> 00:47:11,700
almost like a veil is lifted or a

999
00:47:18,579 --> 00:47:15,089
curtain is lifted tor for a sustained

1000
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:18,589
exposure to another universe another

1001
00:47:24,140 --> 00:47:21,690
world something very very different from

1002
00:47:28,730 --> 00:47:24,150
from a lot of other stories because it's

1003
00:47:34,069 --> 00:47:28,740
so complete now getting back to the

1004
00:47:36,260 --> 00:47:34,079
tapes you could actually make them just

1005
00:47:39,319 --> 00:47:36,270
audio and make those available I would

1006
00:47:42,859 --> 00:47:39,329
think I can't see any harm no one would

1007
00:47:47,540 --> 00:47:42,869
be able to pinpoint you know who the

1008
00:47:49,609 --> 00:47:47,550
people were just by this voice is

1009
00:47:54,650 --> 00:47:49,619
actually word for word pulled from the

1010
00:47:58,309 --> 00:47:54,660
from the if there's a section of doctor

1011
00:47:59,749 --> 00:47:58,319
an external ease Gifford it comes

1012
00:48:01,459 --> 00:47:59,759
directly from the tape

1013
00:48:04,399 --> 00:48:01,469
so there's a lot of oohs and ahhs and

1014
00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:04,409
you know I can't quite see this well as

1015
00:48:09,019 --> 00:48:06,089
I'm coming in clearly they don't want me

1016
00:48:11,289 --> 00:48:09,029
to tell you so what what I managed to do

1017
00:48:13,339 --> 00:48:11,299
and when anyone would do is to take the

1018
00:48:16,159 --> 00:48:13,349
significant pieces of the tape where

1019
00:48:19,939 --> 00:48:16,169
they actually give information and and

1020
00:48:22,219 --> 00:48:19,949
that's what's you know very elemental to

1021
00:48:27,019 --> 00:48:22,229
the book okay up on the message board

1022
00:48:30,439 --> 00:48:27,029
Matthew is asking did the wife ever do a

1023
00:48:32,959 --> 00:48:30,449
polygraph test after she gave birth no

1024
00:48:35,769 --> 00:48:32,969
she never did no is that something that

1025
00:48:38,839 --> 00:48:35,779
you have tried to get her to do no

1026
00:48:42,319 --> 00:48:38,849
actually you know we've carted them off

1027
00:48:46,939 --> 00:48:42,329
to from California to Washington DC for

1028
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:46,949
week then to South Carolina for a week

1029
00:48:53,749 --> 00:48:50,249
did you know hours and hours and hours

1030
00:48:56,659 --> 00:48:53,759
of taped and videotapes and and whatnot

1031
00:48:58,039 --> 00:48:56,669
so really when he passed the test when

1032
00:48:59,479 --> 00:48:58,049
the two doctors came up with their

1033
00:49:01,639 --> 00:48:59,489
conclusion one that they're not neurotic

1034
00:49:03,499 --> 00:49:01,649
they're not psychotic and Petone

1035
00:49:06,169 --> 00:49:03,509
actually said they're suffering from

1036
00:49:09,379 --> 00:49:06,179
post-traumatic stress much as a pig of

1037
00:49:12,289 --> 00:49:09,389
you would sexual dysfunction insomnia

1038
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:12,299
paranoia etc so I didn't see it just

1039
00:49:17,199 --> 00:49:14,729
didn't seem you know important to tell

1040
00:49:20,329 --> 00:49:17,209
you the truth okay so outside of

1041
00:49:23,629 --> 00:49:20,339
yourself and the two doctors how many

1042
00:49:26,929 --> 00:49:23,639
people that know them closely know about

1043
00:49:28,789 --> 00:49:26,939
this story I can't say you know

1044
00:49:30,949 --> 00:49:28,799
obviously I can't say because I don't

1045
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:30,959
know with them moment to moment but it's

1046
00:49:37,009 --> 00:49:32,880
a small number and I can tell you that

1047
00:49:41,179 --> 00:49:37,019
their parents obviously two of their

1048
00:49:44,509 --> 00:49:41,189
children the older ones and and the

1049
00:49:46,039 --> 00:49:44,519
mutual friend that we shared so those

1050
00:49:48,049 --> 00:49:46,049
would be the people that I'm aware

1051
00:49:50,839 --> 00:49:48,059
outside of the two doctors and myself

1052
00:49:54,229 --> 00:49:50,849
that would you know know about this and

1053
00:49:57,019 --> 00:49:54,239
can you there well I have like two

1054
00:50:01,749 --> 00:49:57,029
questions I don't know which one to ask

1055
00:50:04,639 --> 00:50:01,759
first but I wanted to find out how you

1056
00:50:07,729 --> 00:50:04,649
were introduced to them to begin with

1057
00:50:09,069 --> 00:50:07,739
and I am going to forget the second

1058
00:50:10,790 --> 00:50:09,079
question so go ahead and answer that

1059
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:10,800
yeah this was

1060
00:50:16,490 --> 00:50:12,570
a fellow that worked for me I mentioned

1061
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:16,500
that I was an executive CEO of this

1062
00:50:20,690 --> 00:50:17,130
company

1063
00:50:24,230 --> 00:50:20,700
we have about 156 people in the Americas

1064
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:24,240
so he was a salesperson in in California

1065
00:50:29,180 --> 00:50:26,160
and we got to be friends with bright

1066
00:50:31,850 --> 00:50:29,190
guys very personable fellow so we got to

1067
00:50:35,210 --> 00:50:31,860
be friends he knew I was a writer and he

1068
00:50:38,570 --> 00:50:35,220
played college football with Tom Gifford

1069
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:38,580
who was an all-state football player and

1070
00:50:44,420 --> 00:50:42,090
in college and they were best friends so

1071
00:50:48,410 --> 00:50:44,430
he knew how terribly these people were

1072
00:50:51,380 --> 00:50:48,420
suffering and how morbid you know their

1073
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:51,390
life had become due to this and holding

1074
00:50:56,210 --> 00:50:53,760
it in and he thought from my side it was

1075
00:51:00,220 --> 00:50:56,220
a great story and from their side it

1076
00:51:02,450 --> 00:51:00,230
would be maybe cathartic to to tell it I

1077
00:51:04,370 --> 00:51:02,460
originally didn't want to do the story

1078
00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:04,380
because I just I said I don't do that

1079
00:51:08,180 --> 00:51:06,420
kind of thing I mean I I you know

1080
00:51:12,230 --> 00:51:08,190
written some books on business I've

1081
00:51:13,790 --> 00:51:12,240
written some spy novels and some true

1082
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:13,800
detective stories and things like that

1083
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:16,170
actually for true detective magazine and

1084
00:51:22,670 --> 00:51:19,170
and you know a series that I was working

1085
00:51:25,250 --> 00:51:22,680
on fiction but I was not something that

1086
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:25,260
was you know really appealing to me but

1087
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:27,450
then once I heard the story and the

1088
00:51:31,070 --> 00:51:29,490
depth of it and the breadth and how

1089
00:51:34,220 --> 00:51:31,080
sincere these people were and how it

1090
00:51:36,110 --> 00:51:34,230
affected their life I just felt like I

1091
00:51:38,380 --> 00:51:36,120
didn't think there was a story that I'd

1092
00:51:41,420 --> 00:51:38,390
ever heard that had this scope and

1093
00:51:45,710 --> 00:51:41,430
expand and the detail and specificity

1094
00:51:48,860 --> 00:51:45,720
that this did so I wrote him now let's

1095
00:51:50,300 --> 00:51:48,870
just say this this situation I do want

1096
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:50,310
to talk about the craft and all that in

1097
00:51:57,260 --> 00:51:52,650
just a minute but just say this um this

1098
00:52:01,060 --> 00:51:57,270
whole situation happened and I can't

1099
00:52:03,500 --> 00:52:01,070
imagine how horrified they both were

1100
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:03,510
what do you do the next day what did

1101
00:52:09,050 --> 00:52:07,170
they do the next day yeah actually they

1102
00:52:11,450 --> 00:52:09,060
debated whether they should tell their

1103
00:52:15,230 --> 00:52:11,460
parents mm-hmm I mean that's what they

1104
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:15,240
did the next day the next day they they

1105
00:52:23,940 --> 00:52:19,650
they slept a long time that too and they

1106
00:52:27,690 --> 00:52:23,950
compared notes the next day they

1107
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:27,700
I guess debated how to approach their

1108
00:52:30,990 --> 00:52:29,290
parents if they should approach their

1109
00:52:33,260 --> 00:52:31,000
parents if this was something they

1110
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:33,270
should just keep to themselves entirely

1111
00:52:38,750 --> 00:52:36,730
they never what never came up was here

1112
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:38,760
can we exploit this in some way because

1113
00:52:45,180 --> 00:52:41,290
this guy had an important job

1114
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:45,190
and by the way struggled nothing seemed

1115
00:52:49,260 --> 00:52:46,510
important to him after this

1116
00:52:50,910 --> 00:52:49,270
so working you know a shopping mall

1117
00:52:53,130 --> 00:52:50,920
constructing a shopping mall it was the

1118
00:52:57,210 --> 00:52:53,140
furthest thing from his mind all these

1119
00:53:00,240 --> 00:52:57,220
things are dwarfed by the hugeness of

1120
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:00,250
this of what they'd experienced right

1121
00:53:05,310 --> 00:53:02,050
we're getting a little bit of background

1122
00:53:08,550 --> 00:53:05,320
noise here are you are you up next to

1123
00:53:11,340 --> 00:53:08,560
your mic but actually I'm wearing a

1124
00:53:12,900 --> 00:53:11,350
headset it is a headset okay all right

1125
00:53:15,420 --> 00:53:12,910
I'll quit talking about that

1126
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:15,430
I already got teased on the chatroom

1127
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:21,850
about that okay so they came forward and

1128
00:53:27,530 --> 00:53:23,890
did tell their parents and how did their

1129
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:27,540
parents take this story well I mean I

1130
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:32,160
have to say probably better than what

1131
00:53:37,730 --> 00:53:35,050
they mean they were very understanding

1132
00:53:41,220 --> 00:53:37,740
and because you know they could tell

1133
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:41,230
that over the weeks that had gone by so

1134
00:53:46,050 --> 00:53:43,510
let's say it took them three weeks to to

1135
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:46,060
get up the nerve to sit down and discuss

1136
00:53:51,060 --> 00:53:49,570
this you know they could see that they

1137
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:51,070
hadn't slept that they looked terrible

1138
00:53:57,180 --> 00:53:55,090
that they were distracted and so they

1139
00:53:58,800 --> 00:53:57,190
were empathetic to all of it but of

1140
00:54:00,840 --> 00:53:58,810
course the first thing they said well

1141
00:54:02,970 --> 00:54:00,850
maybe you know there's a desert warfare

1142
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:02,980
exercises that go on and this and that

1143
00:54:11,790 --> 00:54:07,810
and you know Tom who you know again was

1144
00:54:13,770 --> 00:54:11,800
a bright guy and and you know was knew

1145
00:54:16,890 --> 00:54:13,780
about guns knew about weapons knew about

1146
00:54:18,330 --> 00:54:16,900
a lot of things like that I said do you

1147
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:18,340
think that I wouldn't know the

1148
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:21,250
difference between a military exercise

1149
00:54:29,330 --> 00:54:24,010
and this he said the craft

1150
00:54:34,140 --> 00:54:29,340
I saw no military could ever contemplate

1151
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:34,150
you know what we saw is beyond the pale

1152
00:54:41,010 --> 00:54:36,730
of any military

1153
00:54:43,230 --> 00:54:41,020
and you just have to believe that and so

1154
00:54:45,059 --> 00:54:43,240
I mean maybe you have kids baby you

1155
00:54:50,819 --> 00:54:45,069
could so maybe somebody says and again

1156
00:54:54,030 --> 00:54:50,829
these were very very straight religious

1157
00:54:58,349 --> 00:54:54,040
sort of people coming from that kind of

1158
00:55:02,220 --> 00:54:58,359
background and so drugs obviously comes

1159
00:55:05,010 --> 00:55:02,230
up you know LSD for example peyote or

1160
00:55:06,930 --> 00:55:05,020
mescaline or even botulism maybe from a

1161
00:55:10,770 --> 00:55:06,940
bad can of beans or something like that

1162
00:55:13,770 --> 00:55:10,780
but the psychiatrist discounted that

1163
00:55:16,430 --> 00:55:13,780
because if they were elucidating let's

1164
00:55:19,230 --> 00:55:16,440
say with LSD was for one of another

1165
00:55:22,650 --> 00:55:19,240
scenario they would not be hallucinating

1166
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:22,660
the same things right they would be off

1167
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:25,119
on their own tangents built from their

1168
00:55:29,870 --> 00:55:28,000
subconscious so it's impossible that if

1169
00:55:32,490 --> 00:55:29,880
you took LSD and I took LSD

1170
00:55:34,740 --> 00:55:32,500
moment-to-moment we'd be sick that you

1171
00:55:40,460 --> 00:55:34,750
know seeing the same thing comparing

1172
00:55:46,049 --> 00:55:40,470
notes like this as they did uh-huh now

1173
00:55:47,579 --> 00:55:46,059
did the next day when they woke up you

1174
00:55:50,460 --> 00:55:47,589
said they slept a lot which you actually

1175
00:55:53,819 --> 00:55:50,470
do hear a lot about people that are

1176
00:55:55,710 --> 00:55:53,829
claiming that they were abducted they

1177
00:55:58,260 --> 00:55:55,720
always seem to sleep a lot the next day

1178
00:56:00,180 --> 00:55:58,270
I don't know if you've ever heard that

1179
00:56:02,990 --> 00:56:00,190
before or not but did they think to

1180
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:03,000
report this whole thing to the

1181
00:56:08,819 --> 00:56:05,770
authorities whatever authorities would

1182
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:08,829
be I I'm sure that was something that

1183
00:56:14,010 --> 00:56:11,530
they debated the next day and and days

1184
00:56:19,170 --> 00:56:14,020
after that but if you look at the again

1185
00:56:21,359 --> 00:56:19,180
the scope of this story I just don't

1186
00:56:22,740 --> 00:56:21,369
think there was like evidence and if

1187
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:22,750
there was let's say that this thing was

1188
00:56:26,490 --> 00:56:25,450
tracked on radar it's not the kind of

1189
00:56:28,230 --> 00:56:26,500
thing somebody's gonna say oh you're

1190
00:56:30,690 --> 00:56:28,240
right that day there was on the radar

1191
00:56:32,190 --> 00:56:30,700
screen we yeah I don't think it works

1192
00:56:34,829 --> 00:56:32,200
that way I think the way it works even

1193
00:56:36,900 --> 00:56:34,839
when a guy like Jimmy Carter former

1194
00:56:38,670 --> 00:56:36,910
president or Ronald Reagan former

1195
00:56:42,750 --> 00:56:38,680
president talks about a UFO which they

1196
00:56:45,260 --> 00:56:42,760
have or the governor of Arizona for

1197
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:45,270
example during the Phoenix lights

1198
00:56:49,580 --> 00:56:48,010
actually now comes out you know after

1199
00:56:54,290 --> 00:56:49,590
he's out of office and said

1200
00:56:57,370 --> 00:56:54,300
my son and I saw a UFO that was the size

1201
00:57:00,140 --> 00:56:57,380
of a football field the size of a city

1202
00:57:02,180 --> 00:57:00,150
yeah and it floated over our heads while

1203
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:02,190
we were in a park but while he was

1204
00:57:06,740 --> 00:57:04,770
governor he actually ridiculed those

1205
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:06,750
people kind of made fun of them right

1206
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:11,370
and and so I think there's just no great

1207
00:57:15,170 --> 00:57:12,930
benefit I think when you really analyze

1208
00:57:17,330 --> 00:57:15,180
it at energy you in your life and your

1209
00:57:20,900 --> 00:57:17,340
reputation and your family

1210
00:57:24,020 --> 00:57:20,910
I think the first the second conclusion

1211
00:57:25,070 --> 00:57:24,030
you come to is you know let's just keep

1212
00:57:28,430 --> 00:57:25,080
this to ourselves

1213
00:57:30,710 --> 00:57:28,440
mm-hmm yeah I'm sure a lot of people I

1214
00:57:33,050 --> 00:57:30,720
could understand that totally another

1215
00:57:35,210 --> 00:57:33,060
question up on the message board is what

1216
00:57:39,350 --> 00:57:35,220
is the main thing learned about these

1217
00:57:41,570 --> 00:57:39,360
alien about the alien agenda yeah that's

1218
00:57:46,090 --> 00:57:41,580
that's really a great question and and

1219
00:57:51,260 --> 00:57:48,500
you could go ahead and read it's just

1220
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:51,270
that I'm not big a lot of exercise I

1221
00:57:57,410 --> 00:57:53,760
could talk to it yeah but but the exact

1222
00:57:59,450 --> 00:57:57,420
words are very very precise but she

1223
00:58:02,390 --> 00:57:59,460
talks about the five galaxies she talks

1224
00:58:05,390 --> 00:58:02,400
about unification I actually asked her

1225
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:05,400
while she's hypnotized the doctor let me

1226
00:58:10,850 --> 00:58:08,130
ask a couple questions you know what is

1227
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:10,860
the agenda and when will they make

1228
00:58:18,370 --> 00:58:15,690
themselves known and and she came up

1229
00:58:20,690 --> 00:58:18,380
with this when when the things that that

1230
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:20,700
mattered us stopped mattering start

1231
00:58:26,540 --> 00:58:24,000
mattering to them but beyond that she

1232
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:26,550
says I say when will this happen and

1233
00:58:32,990 --> 00:58:28,890
tears I don't know then I say well in my

1234
00:58:36,050 --> 00:58:33,000
lifetime she was in your children's in

1235
00:58:38,780 --> 00:58:36,060
your children's lifetime so my my gut

1236
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:38,790
take what I take out of this because

1237
00:58:43,310 --> 00:58:41,370
even afterwards you know I did a little

1238
00:58:46,550 --> 00:58:43,320
research then on on the Mojave Desert

1239
00:58:50,420 --> 00:58:46,560
and in the Mojave Desert are these these

1240
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:50,430
ground drawings of the Mojave twins that

1241
00:58:56,540 --> 00:58:53,370
could only be seen from from high up and

1242
00:59:00,620 --> 00:58:56,550
also in the caves around there and they

1243
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:00,630
call them the mojave twins the Paiute

1244
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:02,570
Indians drew them

1245
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:05,570
and I saw pictures and I almost fell out

1246
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:08,090
of my chair because it was exactly the

1247
00:59:13,660 --> 00:59:11,210
illuminated beings then that the

1248
00:59:22,540 --> 00:59:13,670
Giffords talked about well let's hear

1249
00:59:24,820 --> 00:59:22,550
details on the beings yeah yeah sure

1250
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:24,830
sure there were there were a few

1251
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:26,960
different types yeah there were almost a

1252
00:59:33,420 --> 00:59:30,050
realm a realm like a hierarchy so this

1253
00:59:36,490 --> 00:59:33,430
is the way it went there were these

1254
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:36,500
gremlin type beings that were rough that

1255
00:59:42,700 --> 00:59:39,410
were malevolent Leatherface vicious

1256
00:59:48,010 --> 00:59:42,710
fierce eyes red eyes and these things

1257
00:59:50,170 --> 00:59:48,020
were were like rambunctious children but

1258
00:59:53,290 --> 00:59:50,180
mindless and they're running around all

1259
00:59:54,940 --> 00:59:53,300
over the place there were these two now

1260
00:59:56,950 --> 00:59:54,950
holographs or whatever that were

1261
00:59:59,020 --> 00:59:56,960
electrified so they couldn't get out of

1262
01:00:01,390 --> 00:59:59,030
the camper so were these beings no there

1263
01:00:03,190 --> 01:00:01,400
were kind of device then there were the

1264
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:03,200
illuminated figures and the illuminated

1265
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:06,890
figures were about five feet tall maybe

1266
01:00:13,060 --> 01:00:08,690
five feet five she describes them as

1267
01:00:17,620 --> 01:00:13,070
about her height white translucent

1268
01:00:20,140 --> 01:00:17,630
almost with with large eyes with two

1269
01:00:22,810 --> 01:00:20,150
holes for nose a slit for a mouth and

1270
01:00:25,570 --> 01:00:22,820
when they looked in their eyes they said

1271
01:00:27,970 --> 01:00:25,580
it didn't have parts like ours did it

1272
01:00:34,420 --> 01:00:27,980
was like it just went straight back like

1273
01:00:37,300 --> 01:00:34,430
combs into into blackness and and also

1274
01:00:41,350 --> 01:00:37,310
there was a last type and this was what

1275
01:00:44,050 --> 01:00:41,360
really makes the story guess so strange

1276
01:00:46,510 --> 01:00:44,060
and significant in many ways when

1277
01:00:48,100 --> 01:00:46,520
everything has gone crazy and these

1278
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:48,110
people are thinking they're gonna have

1279
01:00:52,950 --> 01:00:49,850
heart attacks and die in the back of the

1280
01:00:55,900 --> 01:00:52,960
camera they thought they were in Hell so

1281
01:00:57,880 --> 01:00:55,910
it kind of mist would come into the back

1282
01:01:00,310 --> 01:00:57,890
of the camper and soothe them and they

1283
01:01:02,470 --> 01:01:00,320
feel their heart beat go down they feel

1284
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:02,480
their pulse rates go back down and they

1285
01:01:07,630 --> 01:01:04,370
stop hyperventilating they wanted to

1286
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:07,640
keep them alive clearly but there was a

1287
01:01:12,730 --> 01:01:09,730
moment when things were incredibly

1288
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:12,740
chaotic when mayhem broke loose and

1289
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:13,050
these

1290
01:01:21,350 --> 01:01:18,330
little beings are jostling around the

1291
01:01:22,910 --> 01:01:21,360
camper and in trees the the searcher is

1292
01:01:24,530 --> 01:01:22,920
combing the desert basin these

1293
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:24,540
illuminated figures are putting them

1294
01:01:28,790 --> 01:01:25,290
through hell

1295
01:01:31,700 --> 01:01:28,800
mentally and all of a sudden that

1296
01:01:35,300 --> 01:01:31,710
angelic presence clearly feminine they

1297
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:35,310
say a swirling sort of motion and a

1298
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:38,370
feminine presence like a woman says

1299
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:42,570
don't worry this will be over this will

1300
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:45,090
not last forever you know

1301
01:01:52,430 --> 01:01:48,000
be calm be comforted this will this will

1302
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:52,440
cease and they called that being just

1303
01:01:58,610 --> 01:01:54,690
again between themselves the comforter

1304
01:02:01,250 --> 01:01:58,620
but it really was a lot like people

1305
01:02:03,260 --> 01:02:01,260
would describe a Marian visitation maybe

1306
01:02:05,750 --> 01:02:03,270
at Fatima Lourdes or something along

1307
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:05,760
those lines but there was a clear order

1308
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:08,850
to this and the order would be something

1309
01:02:13,820 --> 01:02:10,530
like the illuminated figures were

1310
01:02:16,370 --> 01:02:13,830
scientists you know very clinical no

1311
01:02:17,570 --> 01:02:16,380
emotions whatsoever the malevolent

1312
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:17,580
beings go figure

1313
01:02:23,810 --> 01:02:21,090
they called them gremlins the angelic

1314
01:02:26,060 --> 01:02:23,820
presence something else again on the

1315
01:02:29,150 --> 01:02:26,070
ship when they did recover memories from

1316
01:02:34,580 --> 01:02:29,160
being on the ship and being examined

1317
01:02:36,740 --> 01:02:34,590
I mean Elise Gifford cried Tom cried I

1318
01:02:38,750 --> 01:02:36,750
mean you know I don't know what they

1319
01:02:40,940 --> 01:02:38,760
want you know I don't know why they're

1320
01:02:43,010 --> 01:02:40,950
staring at us like this they're putting

1321
01:02:44,750 --> 01:02:43,020
their fingers over my body they're

1322
01:02:50,180 --> 01:02:44,760
putting probes over my body

1323
01:02:54,980 --> 01:02:50,190
they they had had Tom had a device

1324
01:02:56,810 --> 01:02:54,990
inserted in his anus and she as well so

1325
01:03:03,010 --> 01:02:56,820
these were not pleasant experiences and

1326
01:03:08,420 --> 01:03:03,020
these were scientific experiments well

1327
01:03:11,540 --> 01:03:08,430
when when this was going on this was all

1328
01:03:15,770 --> 01:03:11,550
the stuff that they were not conscious

1329
01:03:17,810 --> 01:03:15,780
of and they had to regress to find all

1330
01:03:19,850 --> 01:03:17,820
this stuff out well no actually the

1331
01:03:21,590 --> 01:03:19,860
aluminum baby beings and the the

1332
01:03:22,380 --> 01:03:21,600
gyrations they went through in the back

1333
01:03:26,250 --> 01:03:22,390
where that was

1334
01:03:29,099 --> 01:03:26,260
just the the gremlin beings conscious

1335
01:03:30,809 --> 01:03:29,109
the spacecraft itself conscious the

1336
01:03:32,819 --> 01:03:30,819
searcher you know that seemed to be

1337
01:03:36,750 --> 01:03:32,829
mining minerals from the desert basin

1338
01:03:40,140 --> 01:03:36,760
conscious they had vague memories of

1339
01:03:42,299 --> 01:03:40,150
like lights and going up into the in the

1340
01:03:46,069 --> 01:03:42,309
camper the whole ground being sucked up

1341
01:03:48,839 --> 01:03:46,079
into the into the craft into a kind of

1342
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:48,849
holding chamber where there were other

1343
01:03:53,759 --> 01:03:51,730
kinds of beings and they had vague

1344
01:03:56,370 --> 01:03:53,769
memories of that and in dreams it would

1345
01:03:59,549 --> 01:03:56,380
start to come out but it was very

1346
01:04:01,890 --> 01:03:59,559
unclear and when you'd ask them they say

1347
01:04:04,829 --> 01:04:01,900
you know I can it's there I just can't

1348
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:04,839
get at it that's what inspired the

1349
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:08,170
retrogressive hidden hypnosis I see now

1350
01:04:14,430 --> 01:04:09,970
did they spend a lot of time in the

1351
01:04:15,630 --> 01:04:14,440
Mojave he did he his father was a hunter

1352
01:04:19,109 --> 01:04:15,640
and his brother was a hunter so they

1353
01:04:23,609 --> 01:04:19,119
would go hunting in the mojave for for

1354
01:04:25,349 --> 01:04:23,619
you know mule deer for example and quail

1355
01:04:27,509 --> 01:04:25,359
and things of that nature now what they

1356
01:04:28,319 --> 01:04:27,519
aware of those drawings you're talking

1357
01:04:31,049 --> 01:04:28,329
about before

1358
01:04:33,420 --> 01:04:31,059
I wasn't they weren't I wasn't no I I

1359
01:04:35,910 --> 01:04:33,430
just came upon it you know sometimes you

1360
01:04:37,170 --> 01:04:35,920
see these books the seven wonders of the

1361
01:04:42,630 --> 01:04:37,180
world or something along those lines

1362
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:42,640
doesn't a doctor's office I almost fell

1363
01:04:47,009 --> 01:04:43,450
off my chair

1364
01:04:53,249 --> 01:04:47,019
this is exactly what what these people

1365
01:04:54,990 --> 01:04:53,259
are talking about Wow now the question

1366
01:04:57,359 --> 01:04:55,000
that comes up all the time when it comes

1367
01:05:01,950 --> 01:04:57,369
to abductions is do you happen to know

1368
01:05:03,990 --> 01:05:01,960
their blood type no I it would be

1369
01:05:06,660 --> 01:05:04,000
interesting if one of them or both them

1370
01:05:08,460 --> 01:05:06,670
or rh- just to keep you may want to make

1371
01:05:11,220 --> 01:05:08,470
a mental note of that and see if you can

1372
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:11,230
pull it out because there is some type

1373
01:05:18,809 --> 01:05:14,890
of connection it seems to be that way

1374
01:05:21,630 --> 01:05:18,819
and Nick Redfern has written a book on

1375
01:05:24,059 --> 01:05:21,640
that very subject he was a guest a while

1376
01:05:26,220 --> 01:05:24,069
back and there's someone else on our

1377
01:05:29,370 --> 01:05:26,230
that sorry listener and in the chat room

1378
01:05:33,150 --> 01:05:29,380
that has been looking into this quite a

1379
01:05:36,210 --> 01:05:33,160
bit let's see there was another question

1380
01:05:39,780 --> 01:05:36,220
up here did the couple

1381
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:39,790
contact other than the desert you know

1382
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:41,770
that that's a great question and the

1383
01:05:46,710 --> 01:05:44,650
answer is yes Thom Gifford when he was 8

1384
01:05:48,510 --> 01:05:46,720
years old this is one of the reasons it

1385
01:05:51,030 --> 01:05:48,520
was so also terrifying to him when he

1386
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:51,040
was 8 or so he was fishing with a friend

1387
01:06:00,480 --> 01:05:56,170
and and they thought they saw an object

1388
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:00,490
a UFO so they looked and you know

1389
01:06:03,810 --> 01:06:02,170
typical of these things well that's a

1390
01:06:06,390 --> 01:06:03,820
shiny object and it gets closer and

1391
01:06:07,770 --> 01:06:06,400
closer then they get scared and the two

1392
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:07,780
kids dropped their fishing rods and

1393
01:06:12,390 --> 01:06:10,720
start running and he had some missing

1394
01:06:14,250 --> 01:06:12,400
time then but he always remembered

1395
01:06:17,810 --> 01:06:14,260
running they always remember running

1396
01:06:21,660 --> 01:06:17,820
away from this UFO that seemed to be

1397
01:06:24,390 --> 01:06:21,670
tailing them and and having missing time

1398
01:06:28,290 --> 01:06:24,400
so when he saw this happening you could

1399
01:06:31,730 --> 01:06:28,300
imagine you know you know 25 years later

1400
01:06:39,829 --> 01:06:31,740
it just doesn't some chills Dennis fun

1401
01:06:43,970 --> 01:06:39,839
now the book the book comes out has that

1402
01:06:47,370 --> 01:06:43,980
changed their life at all I have they

1403
01:06:49,020 --> 01:06:47,380
they keeping like a really good finger

1404
01:06:51,990 --> 01:06:49,030
on the pulse of how this book is doing

1405
01:06:53,790 --> 01:06:52,000
and how it's being accepted and the next

1406
01:06:56,700 --> 01:06:53,800
question is have they listened to any of

1407
01:06:59,370 --> 01:06:56,710
your interviews no I don't think so I

1408
01:07:03,480 --> 01:06:59,380
think like I said this was something

1409
01:07:05,970 --> 01:07:03,490
that happened in 89 90 91 that's when I

1410
01:07:07,740 --> 01:07:05,980
did a lot of this and I did a version of

1411
01:07:09,300 --> 01:07:07,750
it that I wasn't particularly pleased

1412
01:07:14,250 --> 01:07:09,310
with it's a tough story to put together

1413
01:07:17,550 --> 01:07:14,260
as a writer I have to say and so they

1414
01:07:21,980 --> 01:07:17,560
were thrown into the arms I think of the

1415
01:07:26,849 --> 01:07:25,290
trauma the post trauma that they went

1416
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:26,859
through and I think it had a lot to do

1417
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:30,490
with them becoming devout Mormons for a

1418
01:07:34,620 --> 01:07:32,410
period of time a number of years and

1419
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:34,630
Lynn moving actually moving to Salt Lake

1420
01:07:40,140 --> 01:07:38,290
City since that time more recently they

1421
01:07:43,109 --> 01:07:40,150
are not active with the church but I

1422
01:07:45,810 --> 01:07:43,119
think it provided a sort of sanctuary

1423
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:45,820
for them in times when you know you're

1424
01:07:49,870 --> 01:07:47,440
trying to discern what's real and what

1425
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:49,880
isn't right now what

1426
01:07:56,860 --> 01:07:53,570
were your thoughts about the possibility

1427
01:07:59,920 --> 01:07:56,870
of alien alien abduction beforehand I

1428
01:08:02,440 --> 01:07:59,930
mean I would say I looked at it as

1429
01:08:04,750 --> 01:08:02,450
interesting you know it's certainly a

1430
01:08:07,690 --> 01:08:04,760
fascinating and interesting topic but I

1431
01:08:10,210 --> 01:08:07,700
can't say that and I never felt that

1432
01:08:11,950 --> 01:08:10,220
people were crazy or that sort of thing

1433
01:08:15,490 --> 01:08:11,960
I thought there were misunderstandings

1434
01:08:19,210 --> 01:08:15,500
that could go on and I also thought and

1435
01:08:20,590 --> 01:08:19,220
again you know maybe not the the kindest

1436
01:08:23,850 --> 01:08:20,600
thought but I thought that sometimes

1437
01:08:27,970 --> 01:08:23,860
people look at the world and it seems

1438
01:08:32,950 --> 01:08:27,980
not as hopeful and maybe kind of

1439
01:08:36,010 --> 01:08:32,960
depressing even and and these these were

1440
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:36,020
kind of fantasies that maybe were escape

1441
01:08:42,450 --> 01:08:38,930
routes for some people mm-hmm no I think

1442
01:08:48,510 --> 01:08:42,460
you know that's a basis of a lot of

1443
01:08:52,540 --> 01:08:48,520
conspiracy conspiracy theories and and

1444
01:08:57,190 --> 01:08:52,550
the doomsdayers and all that it you know

1445
01:09:00,850 --> 01:08:57,200
it is a life can be trying and sometimes

1446
01:09:02,910 --> 01:09:00,860
people are looking for ways to get out

1447
01:09:07,150 --> 01:09:02,920
of their head more or less yeah yeah

1448
01:09:13,710 --> 01:09:07,160
yeah yeah now you've written fiction and

1449
01:09:16,330 --> 01:09:13,720
nonfiction so by the way it's based on

1450
01:09:19,090 --> 01:09:16,340
this is based on a true story but this

1451
01:09:21,370 --> 01:09:19,100
is basically more or less transcripts is

1452
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:21,380
that right no it's it's this is why I

1453
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:25,010
say it's it's a true story okay so

1454
01:09:29,410 --> 01:09:26,690
there's nothing in here that isn't

1455
01:09:32,350 --> 01:09:29,420
factual but what I had to do just for

1456
01:09:34,450 --> 01:09:32,360
dramatic reasons is to take chronology

1457
01:09:37,770 --> 01:09:34,460
and move it around a little bit just

1458
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:37,780
just for dramatic reasons just for

1459
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:39,050
continuity

1460
01:09:45,340 --> 01:09:42,170
you know life doesn't happen like a

1461
01:09:47,620 --> 01:09:45,350
novel or life doesn't happen like an

1462
01:09:50,740 --> 01:09:47,630
article and so so while the facts aren't

1463
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:50,750
changed what I did have to do was was to

1464
01:09:56,490 --> 01:09:52,730
move chronology around a little bit and

1465
01:10:00,760 --> 01:09:56,500
just so that it it was more digestible

1466
01:10:02,350 --> 01:10:00,770
so but it's a true story and and what

1467
01:10:05,129 --> 01:10:02,360
what I did try to do is

1468
01:10:07,629 --> 01:10:05,139
write it like a novel so that it had

1469
01:10:10,419 --> 01:10:07,639
impact and you captured the emotions

1470
01:10:12,399 --> 01:10:10,429
that went on you know beneath the

1471
01:10:13,899 --> 01:10:12,409
surface in terms of the relationship

1472
01:10:15,129 --> 01:10:13,909
with their kids and their parents and

1473
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:15,139
things of that nature

1474
01:10:20,410 --> 01:10:17,810
mm-hmm yeah I imagine this would be

1475
01:10:22,990 --> 01:10:20,420
trying for any couple to go through on

1476
01:10:24,550 --> 01:10:23,000
their relationship for sure yeah I

1477
01:10:30,189 --> 01:10:24,560
couldn't agree more

1478
01:10:35,399 --> 01:10:30,199
you know when when you were interviewing

1479
01:10:38,109 --> 01:10:35,409
them the first time how did how did you

1480
01:10:40,810 --> 01:10:38,119
how long did it take them to come out

1481
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:40,820
with everything basically well

1482
01:10:44,649 --> 01:10:42,530
everything was everything you know it

1483
01:10:47,620 --> 01:10:44,659
came out and this is what makes it you

1484
01:10:52,500 --> 01:10:47,630
know so if you think about people

1485
01:10:56,770 --> 01:10:52,510
talking about a story you know let's say

1486
01:10:58,649 --> 01:10:56,780
not a well-furnished story you know that

1487
01:11:01,870 --> 01:10:58,659
for years you've sort of told this story

1488
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:01,880
but a very complicated story which you

1489
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:03,770
know which this is because it's like

1490
01:11:12,580 --> 01:11:07,090
again an exposure of a world not a not a

1491
01:11:14,530 --> 01:11:12,590
an incident and so and so they would

1492
01:11:17,410 --> 01:11:14,540
tell a piece of it and this is where the

1493
01:11:19,330 --> 01:11:17,420
chronology came in and I do exactly when

1494
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:19,340
did that happen I mean what time was

1495
01:11:24,070 --> 01:11:22,010
that was this before you know when your

1496
01:11:28,810 --> 01:11:24,080
parents was at five days later or three

1497
01:11:33,189 --> 01:11:28,820
you know so it took a lot and I had to

1498
01:11:35,979 --> 01:11:33,199
really look at the tapes and I had maybe

1499
01:11:38,140 --> 01:11:35,989
30 40 hours of tape and then the

1500
01:11:40,419 --> 01:11:38,150
videotapes and whatnot and see how these

1501
01:11:43,149 --> 01:11:40,429
things came together do you know what I

1502
01:11:46,149 --> 01:11:43,159
mean because what people talk about is

1503
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:46,159
what's most traumatizing to them right

1504
01:11:52,090 --> 01:11:49,489
well let's talk about the craft and what

1505
01:11:54,970 --> 01:11:52,100
their experience or what they recalled

1506
01:11:58,530 --> 01:11:54,980
from going on board how they went on

1507
01:12:04,030 --> 01:11:58,540
board what happened and all that yeah

1508
01:12:07,450 --> 01:12:04,040
well basically they talked about almost

1509
01:12:08,890 --> 01:12:07,460
the entire land that they were on this

1510
01:12:11,890 --> 01:12:08,900
is the way it felt

1511
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:11,900
now whether this was real or not I don't

1512
01:12:15,390 --> 01:12:14,330
know you know they don't say this is

1513
01:12:17,850 --> 01:12:15,400
what happened

1514
01:12:22,229 --> 01:12:17,860
is what they say it felt like what it

1515
01:12:24,270 --> 01:12:22,239
felt like was that a section of the

1516
01:12:27,649 --> 01:12:24,280
earth had been cut out around them and

1517
01:12:32,790 --> 01:12:27,659
they've been lifted into the craft

1518
01:12:34,620 --> 01:12:32,800
camper and all well and they even talked

1519
01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:34,630
to each other while it was happening and

1520
01:12:40,140 --> 01:12:37,510
said do you feel this you know the

1521
01:12:43,820 --> 01:12:40,150
desert is the same but I feel like we're

1522
01:12:46,890 --> 01:12:43,830
being lifted and it's colder and so

1523
01:12:48,570 --> 01:12:46,900
that's that's was one of the that was

1524
01:12:55,919 --> 01:12:48,580
one of the last conscious memories they

1525
01:12:58,530 --> 01:12:55,929
had I see you know I usually break at

1526
01:13:00,899 --> 01:12:58,540
the I went a little longer usually take

1527
01:13:03,209 --> 01:13:00,909
a quick break at the top of the hour so

1528
01:13:06,209 --> 01:13:03,219
the one hour listener gets a little

1529
01:13:07,979 --> 01:13:06,219
extra in this in this show so we're

1530
01:13:12,959 --> 01:13:07,989
gonna take just a quick music break and

1531
01:13:15,149 --> 01:13:12,969
we'll be right back so just hang in

1532
01:13:34,460 --> 01:13:15,159
there Ron don't go anywhere you got a

1533
01:13:42,420 --> 01:13:38,960
all right we're on with Ron Felber and

1534
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:42,430
we will be actually taking calls if

1535
01:13:50,430 --> 01:13:44,890
anyone wants to call in you can dial in

1536
01:13:52,590 --> 01:13:50,440
at 603 967 403 o or you can actually

1537
01:13:58,050 --> 01:13:52,600
Skype if you'd like and that's just that

1538
01:13:59,310 --> 01:13:58,060
Marty Willis ma RT y WI ll s o yes it is

1539
01:14:06,660 --> 01:13:59,320
I don't even know how to spell my own

1540
01:14:08,970 --> 01:14:06,670
name but you asked about them being

1541
01:14:10,500 --> 01:14:08,980
taken into the craft would you mind if I

1542
01:14:13,140 --> 01:14:10,510
just yeah yeah sure go ahead

1543
01:14:15,480 --> 01:14:13,150
yeah so this is tom gifford again under

1544
01:14:17,610 --> 01:14:15,490
hypnosis I see bright bright blinking

1545
01:14:19,350 --> 01:14:17,620
lights I'm on my back and circled by

1546
01:14:21,540 --> 01:14:19,360
people looking at me I see their

1547
01:14:24,570 --> 01:14:21,550
outlines in the light strange shadows

1548
01:14:26,430 --> 01:14:24,580
but it's so bright I'm fighting fighting

1549
01:14:28,830 --> 01:14:26,440
and resisting them in the camper

1550
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:28,840
Elise is grasping for my hand and she's

1551
01:14:33,510 --> 01:14:31,330
being pulled away they're white white

1552
01:14:35,190 --> 01:14:33,520
all over and I'm fighting I want to

1553
01:14:38,490 --> 01:14:35,200
remember things about that but the

1554
01:14:41,460 --> 01:14:38,500
memories don't seem concrete ba guys

1555
01:14:44,070 --> 01:14:41,470
Elise screams say more it's one of the

1556
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:44,080
white ones she said perplexed then in a

1557
01:14:48,870 --> 01:14:47,410
panic voice can't move I'm just scared I

1558
01:14:51,750 --> 01:14:48,880
want to go home now

1559
01:14:54,450 --> 01:14:51,760
long fingers there's three around my

1560
01:14:56,580 --> 01:14:54,460
face almost touching but not touching

1561
01:14:59,160 --> 01:14:56,590
what's on the other side of the fingers

1562
01:15:01,320 --> 01:14:59,170
a mysterious like white white light I

1563
01:15:02,970 --> 01:15:01,330
remember this hallway all lit up in blue

1564
01:15:05,130 --> 01:15:02,980
lights even in the ground

1565
01:15:07,470 --> 01:15:05,140
I guess I'm walking but it doesn't feel

1566
01:15:09,870 --> 01:15:07,480
like I'm walking it's like a tunnel long

1567
01:15:12,420 --> 01:15:09,880
no room just a long tunnel of blue

1568
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:12,430
lights until finally there's an opening

1569
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:15,130
who are you with the white guy

1570
01:15:19,530 --> 01:15:17,290
where is your husband I don't know where

1571
01:15:22,260 --> 01:15:19,540
he is she bones I can feel him in my

1572
01:15:24,870 --> 01:15:22,270
mind though hang on just went just one

1573
01:15:28,940 --> 01:15:24,880
second I'm sorry to interrupt you

1574
01:15:31,650 --> 01:15:28,950
we have someone that just Skyped in and

1575
01:15:37,050 --> 01:15:31,660
looks like Jaffe

1576
01:15:39,180 --> 01:15:37,060
how are you Jaffe our caller you might

1577
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:39,190
be using a different screen name caller

1578
01:15:41,850 --> 01:15:40,690
you're on the air you have a question

1579
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:41,860
for Ron

1580
01:15:47,250 --> 01:15:45,370
hello hello there your life alright

1581
01:15:50,070 --> 01:15:47,260
Martin what are you doing um I have a

1582
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:50,080
question about the episode in the camper

1583
01:15:56,910 --> 01:15:53,530
how long were they in the camper while

1584
01:15:59,340 --> 01:15:56,920
the aliens were you know creating mayhem

1585
01:16:03,210 --> 01:15:59,350
II said that Grimm weren't an alien

1586
01:16:06,660 --> 01:16:03,220
throwing around yeah it was a it was

1587
01:16:08,820 --> 01:16:06,670
again a sustained period of time and if

1588
01:16:11,100 --> 01:16:08,830
I estimated from when they got there and

1589
01:16:15,810 --> 01:16:11,110
woke up the next day probably something

1590
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:15,820
like six hours six hours you you

1591
01:16:23,340 --> 01:16:20,050
described that day they got more or less

1592
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:23,350
gassed at one point remains no no no

1593
01:16:31,170 --> 01:16:28,810
when when things got so intense and they

1594
01:16:32,820 --> 01:16:31,180
thought they were in hell when things

1595
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:32,830
got so intense in there their pulse

1596
01:16:37,350 --> 01:16:33,970
rates were beating and they were

1597
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:37,360
hyperventilating a kind of mist would

1598
01:16:45,060 --> 01:16:40,770
fill the back of the camper like

1599
01:16:46,650 --> 01:16:45,070
something that Tesla ties them so that

1600
01:16:48,590 --> 01:16:46,660
their pulse rates came down and they

1601
01:16:51,540 --> 01:16:48,600
didn't die Wow

1602
01:16:54,450 --> 01:16:51,550
okay so that when that happened that was

1603
01:16:57,450 --> 01:16:54,460
only like a short term yeah

1604
01:17:00,950 --> 01:16:57,460
reduction of their anxieties exactly did

1605
01:17:03,090 --> 01:17:00,960
you describe that and then you described

1606
01:17:06,810 --> 01:17:03,100
it was someone that they called the

1607
01:17:08,940 --> 01:17:06,820
sudor the comforter yes the comforter I

1608
01:17:12,050 --> 01:17:08,950
think that's what it was yeah I was just

1609
01:17:17,490 --> 01:17:12,060
wondering why the aliens would need two

1610
01:17:19,170 --> 01:17:17,500
different ways to keep them calm during

1611
01:17:21,270 --> 01:17:19,180
the whole event you would think they

1612
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:21,280
would have them under control you know

1613
01:17:27,140 --> 01:17:25,210
well I mean if you think about it they

1614
01:17:29,910 --> 01:17:27,150
did one one they wanted to get their raw

1615
01:17:32,550 --> 01:17:29,920
emotions they wanted to get their raw

1616
01:17:35,250 --> 01:17:32,560
feelings and they're the feelings of tur

1617
01:17:37,890 --> 01:17:35,260
help what does a human being experienced

1618
01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:37,900
when they're terrified what term now I

1619
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:40,090
understand this is a way I'm looking

1620
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:41,770
them alive yeah this was a way of

1621
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:43,210
keeping them alive so they could be

1622
01:17:49,980 --> 01:17:47,290
experimented on further basically they

1623
01:17:52,250 --> 01:17:49,990
even want them to dated but they wanted

1624
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:52,260
them under control okay exactly okay

1625
01:17:55,850 --> 01:17:54,610
that's it well thank you all right

1626
01:18:00,810 --> 01:17:55,860
caller thanks for calling

1627
01:18:02,969 --> 01:18:00,820
okay all right so Ron I'm sorry we we

1628
01:18:04,319 --> 01:18:02,979
interrupted that little excerpt you're

1629
01:18:05,909 --> 01:18:04,329
reading I don't know if you kept your

1630
01:18:10,500 --> 01:18:05,919
place or you won't we want to move on

1631
01:18:13,199 --> 01:18:10,510
here just like I said some some very

1632
01:18:16,409 --> 01:18:13,209
interesting I think descriptions of the

1633
01:18:18,719 --> 01:18:16,419
beings that you know that you don't hear

1634
01:18:19,770 --> 01:18:18,729
very often but here's one the being is

1635
01:18:21,779 --> 01:18:19,780
four feet tall

1636
01:18:23,759 --> 01:18:21,789
he wears a white luminous uniform with

1637
01:18:26,129 --> 01:18:23,769
an upturned arrow on the chest

1638
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:26,139
he has no facial features no mouth or

1639
01:18:30,750 --> 01:18:27,610
lips only slits

1640
01:18:32,939 --> 01:18:30,760
he passes delecti to the wall stands

1641
01:18:35,069 --> 01:18:32,949
behind the headboard he stays there

1642
01:18:37,679 --> 01:18:35,079
past his three long fingers over a

1643
01:18:40,319 --> 01:18:37,689
leaves his face over and over tom could

1644
01:18:42,149 --> 01:18:40,329
only see the hand he opens his eyes and

1645
01:18:44,729 --> 01:18:42,159
directly above him is the face of the

1646
01:18:46,890 --> 01:18:44,739
white being you're dreaming he hears the

1647
01:18:49,379 --> 01:18:46,900
voice say then he looks to a leaves his

1648
01:18:53,549 --> 01:18:49,389
face and sees the burn marks his fingers

1649
01:18:56,429 --> 01:18:53,559
have left burn marks now did she

1650
01:19:00,719 --> 01:18:56,439
actually have those checked out what

1651
01:19:03,239 --> 01:19:00,729
would happen was she she awakened and

1652
01:19:07,500 --> 01:19:03,249
looked in the mirror and just had you

1653
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:07,510
know had a fit and this went it's

1654
01:19:16,049 --> 01:19:10,650
hysterical he took photographs of the

1655
01:19:20,669 --> 01:19:16,059
the burn marks and they they didn't

1656
01:19:21,089 --> 01:19:20,679
develop they were black Wow how about

1657
01:19:23,969 --> 01:19:21,099
that

1658
01:19:29,879 --> 01:19:23,979
so okay getting back to the craft so

1659
01:19:32,209 --> 01:19:29,889
there on the craft they they are sort of

1660
01:19:35,729 --> 01:19:32,219
teloth communicating between each other

1661
01:19:38,459 --> 01:19:35,739
well I mean I you know she says I you

1662
01:19:40,500 --> 01:19:38,469
know I felt as if I knew he what he was

1663
01:19:42,689 --> 01:19:40,510
going through and he knew what I was

1664
01:19:44,310 --> 01:19:42,699
going through now again that could be

1665
01:19:46,140 --> 01:19:44,320
you know they were separated pulled

1666
01:19:47,580 --> 01:19:46,150
apart literally trying to hold hands

1667
01:19:51,569 --> 01:19:47,590
while they're being you know pulled

1668
01:19:53,310 --> 01:19:51,579
apart so whether it was true telepathy

1669
01:19:58,469 --> 01:19:53,320
or whether it was just the fact that

1670
01:19:59,969 --> 01:19:58,479
that they intuitive that this was

1671
01:20:00,479 --> 01:19:59,979
happening to her this was happening to

1672
01:20:05,969 --> 01:20:00,489
him

1673
01:20:09,380 --> 01:20:05,979
I see and so you said that this is back

1674
01:20:13,950 --> 01:20:09,390
in 1989 but things continued

1675
01:20:16,740 --> 01:20:13,960
up until 1991 well yeah at least that

1676
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:16,750
long but yes I mentioned about the the

1677
01:20:23,970 --> 01:20:19,810
child was spinning in the room and I

1678
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:23,980
mentioned the fact that when Elyse got

1679
01:20:29,700 --> 01:20:26,650
pregnant she was convinced that these

1680
01:20:33,270 --> 01:20:29,710
beings were in the room watching and how

1681
01:20:36,870 --> 01:20:33,280
about today what what do they talk about

1682
01:20:39,900 --> 01:20:36,880
anything still ongoing I think at the

1683
01:20:43,340 --> 01:20:39,910
end of it a lot like and this was dr.

1684
01:20:45,930 --> 01:20:43,350
Burton's analysis it's like a Peter W

1685
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:45,940
you know these things just don't go away

1686
01:20:52,020 --> 01:20:50,410
and and so you could say that when they

1687
01:20:55,110 --> 01:20:52,030
hear a creak in the house or when they

1688
01:20:59,100 --> 01:20:55,120
hear you know pipes the plumbing in a

1689
01:21:02,220 --> 01:20:59,110
house making noises or this or that they

1690
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:02,230
would would be very prone to say this

1691
01:21:07,380 --> 01:21:03,730
has something to do with their alien

1692
01:21:13,100 --> 01:21:07,390
abduction so how much reality is there

1693
01:21:17,939 --> 01:21:13,110
is to that or not I couldn't say right

1694
01:21:23,610 --> 01:21:17,949
now so the the thing that I think about

1695
01:21:28,590 --> 01:21:23,620
in a situation like this is I still keep

1696
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:28,600
going back to the fact that someday we

1697
01:21:35,580 --> 01:21:30,850
want to be able to see these people and

1698
01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:35,590
see who they are and how much of that

1699
01:21:42,900 --> 01:21:40,090
have they talked about like did they say

1700
01:21:44,490 --> 01:21:42,910
well maybe someday or are they saying

1701
01:21:47,370 --> 01:21:44,500
well we'll definitely come out with this

1702
01:21:50,630 --> 01:21:47,380
at some point you know because you know

1703
01:21:53,459 --> 01:21:50,640
it's a it's a well-written book by you

1704
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:53,469
you seem to have tried to cover all the

1705
01:21:59,820 --> 01:21:56,650
bases as far as polygraph tests and

1706
01:22:02,640 --> 01:21:59,830
having different you know doctors check

1707
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:02,650
them out things like that but I'm sure

1708
01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:04,930
you realize the fact that everybody

1709
01:22:11,209 --> 01:22:06,719
wants to know who these people are and

1710
01:22:14,939 --> 01:22:11,219
and as far as a credibility factor goes

1711
01:22:17,669 --> 01:22:14,949
until people can actually talk directly

1712
01:22:18,750 --> 01:22:17,679
with these people there's gonna be a lot

1713
01:22:20,970 --> 01:22:18,760
of people out there that are going to

1714
01:22:22,339 --> 01:22:20,980
say how nice book interesting but I

1715
01:22:24,709 --> 01:22:22,349
don't believe it

1716
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:24,719
can talk to the doctors they could talk

1717
01:22:31,959 --> 01:22:29,489
directly to the doctors excuse me that's

1718
01:22:34,250 --> 01:22:31,969
right but at the end of it I'll tell you

1719
01:22:37,429 --> 01:22:34,260
this is kind of the way it is and I

1720
01:22:41,119 --> 01:22:37,439
think who is this fellow Travis Walton

1721
01:22:42,290 --> 01:22:41,129
well I think from what I understand you

1722
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:42,300
know he came out with this and then

1723
01:22:48,109 --> 01:22:44,010
really just went underground for a long

1724
01:22:52,639 --> 01:22:48,119
period of time I think of it like this

1725
01:22:54,770 --> 01:22:52,649
if you go to a bar and somebody is

1726
01:22:57,290 --> 01:22:54,780
talking about their experiences in war

1727
01:22:59,389 --> 01:22:57,300
and sort of bragging about this or that

1728
01:23:02,029 --> 01:22:59,399
there's a very good chance that person

1729
01:23:04,219 --> 01:23:02,039
never did that because people that were

1730
01:23:06,259 --> 01:23:04,229
really in war and people that really saw

1731
01:23:09,199 --> 01:23:06,269
the horrors of it never talked about

1732
01:23:10,909 --> 01:23:09,209
right they wanted to forget but I would

1733
01:23:12,349 --> 01:23:10,919
say that this is a lot like that they

1734
01:23:15,919 --> 01:23:12,359
want to move on with their lives

1735
01:23:20,209 --> 01:23:15,929
they don't want to be the UFO alien

1736
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:20,219
abduction couple it seems to me that

1737
01:23:23,929 --> 01:23:22,530
they have you know if all this is true

1738
01:23:28,459 --> 01:23:23,939
though that they have something

1739
01:23:33,409 --> 01:23:28,469
important and that may or may not need

1740
01:23:35,239 --> 01:23:33,419
to get out there depending on theirs

1741
01:23:38,060 --> 01:23:35,249
they're saying that something's going to

1742
01:23:41,359 --> 01:23:38,070
happen within your children's a lifetime

1743
01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:41,369
or something like that did they say

1744
01:23:51,129 --> 01:23:45,050
exactly what is going to happen

1745
01:23:57,109 --> 01:23:51,139
communication a mention of the of the

1746
01:24:01,429 --> 01:23:57,119
the cultures and are they talking about

1747
01:24:03,139 --> 01:24:01,439
the cultures that they are aware of yeah

1748
01:24:07,790 --> 01:24:03,149
I think so by the way they talk about

1749
01:24:10,099 --> 01:24:07,800
again this is you know in the in the the

1750
01:24:11,719 --> 01:24:10,109
transcripts in the book it's a basically

1751
01:24:15,379 --> 01:24:11,729
they talk about hybrids or we visited

1752
01:24:17,929 --> 01:24:15,389
regularly yes by a particular kind of

1753
01:24:26,899 --> 01:24:17,939
being there by hybrids by many different

1754
01:24:28,819 --> 01:24:26,909
kinds of beings hmm yeah okay I'm just

1755
01:24:33,529 --> 01:24:28,829
trying to think did we cover everything

1756
01:24:35,070 --> 01:24:33,539
about the craft itself I you know I have

1757
01:24:37,410 --> 01:24:35,080
a description of it

1758
01:24:41,490 --> 01:24:37,420
but I mean basically what you could say

1759
01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:41,500
is if it was enormous he says it domed

1760
01:24:46,440 --> 01:24:44,770
the the entire valley and the the

1761
01:24:48,510 --> 01:24:46,450
closest thing being a football player a

1762
01:24:51,420 --> 01:24:48,520
business make sense it was bigger than

1763
01:24:53,130 --> 01:24:51,430
football field and by the way it had six

1764
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:53,140
other crafts that were sort of miniature

1765
01:24:57,360 --> 01:24:55,210
versions of the mother craft that were

1766
01:25:03,210 --> 01:24:57,370
hanging from from beneath it

1767
01:25:06,270 --> 01:25:03,220
it had a beam that was about 200 feet or

1768
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:06,280
so in diameter that was shooting down

1769
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:08,530
and picking things up and putting things

1770
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:10,330
back down and that they could see this

1771
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:12,210
you know happening

1772
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:17,410
well well interesting now have you have

1773
01:25:22,470 --> 01:25:20,290
you talked to other people that are

1774
01:25:25,380 --> 01:25:22,480
doing research like for instance David

1775
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:25,390
Jacobs or anyone like that about this no

1776
01:25:30,870 --> 01:25:27,850
there was a matter of fact as I say this

1777
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:30,880
is not a alien abduction or a UFO writer

1778
01:25:37,980 --> 01:25:34,890
this was a story that that I found to be

1779
01:25:40,710 --> 01:25:37,990
too compelling to pass on and I did the

1780
01:25:44,790 --> 01:25:40,720
best I could in researching and in

1781
01:25:47,690 --> 01:25:44,800
putting it together and and so of course

1782
01:25:50,460 --> 01:25:47,700
I've read what I could on the topic but

1783
01:25:54,030 --> 01:25:50,470
it's not like I'm in chat rooms with

1784
01:25:57,840 --> 01:25:54,040
people about this topic mm-hmm how how

1785
01:26:00,060 --> 01:25:57,850
closely do you I mean this I'm sure this

1786
01:26:03,630 --> 01:26:00,070
whole situation has changed your life I

1787
01:26:06,930 --> 01:26:03,640
would think if you totally are believing

1788
01:26:12,870 --> 01:26:06,940
their story yeah but you know it's funny

1789
01:26:14,820 --> 01:26:12,880
a lot of people this doesn't phase they

1790
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:14,830
would assume this do you don't have it

1791
01:26:19,440 --> 01:26:16,810
they would assume that I mean look at

1792
01:26:21,300 --> 01:26:19,450
religions for example I mean if you told

1793
01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:21,310
the Catholic that there was a marian

1794
01:26:25,980 --> 01:26:24,130
visitation which I mean food when

1795
01:26:28,110 --> 01:26:25,990
Outsiders pretty spooky and strange

1796
01:26:30,990 --> 01:26:28,120
right they said of course they're Marian

1797
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:31,000
visitations you know if you said you

1798
01:26:35,370 --> 01:26:33,010
know that an angel appeared to a you

1799
01:26:38,370 --> 01:26:35,380
know a born-again Christian that would

1800
01:26:40,830 --> 01:26:38,380
or to a [\h__\h] that was a true believer

1801
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:40,840
they took course angels appear soon I

1802
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:43,570
think so the idea of another existence

1803
01:26:48,140 --> 01:26:46,330
or a parallel universe or many universes

1804
01:26:52,830 --> 01:26:48,150
this isn't

1805
01:26:55,230 --> 01:26:52,840
something something so far-flung to a

1806
01:27:00,290 --> 01:26:55,240
lot of different kinds of people they

1807
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:06,060
so moving on are you in touch with these

1808
01:27:11,910 --> 01:27:10,090
people currently or because this

1809
01:27:15,240 --> 01:27:11,920
happened quite a while ago you met them

1810
01:27:16,950 --> 01:27:15,250
fairly soon after this like within a few

1811
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:16,960
years does that really that's correct

1812
01:27:24,060 --> 01:27:21,130
yeah you know yeah you know we exchanged

1813
01:27:29,190 --> 01:27:24,070
emails on occasion like I said they

1814
01:27:31,860 --> 01:27:29,200
really became I don't like to use words

1815
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:31,870
like Hermits or things like that but

1816
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:34,810
they really got off grid and you know

1817
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:38,770
were were in the in the bosom of this

1818
01:27:44,370 --> 01:27:42,730
church for quite some time and and just

1819
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:44,380
lived a different life a very simple

1820
01:27:50,940 --> 01:27:48,850
life a very you know basic life at a

1821
01:27:53,660 --> 01:27:50,950
very religious life what did they say

1822
01:27:56,070 --> 01:27:53,670
about your book after they read it uh

1823
01:28:00,770 --> 01:27:56,080
they they liked it I mean they they

1824
01:28:03,450 --> 01:28:00,780
thought it was well done they I think

1825
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:03,460
looked at it from a more religious

1826
01:28:12,540 --> 01:28:07,090
standpoint later than when they first

1827
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:12,550
read it and so and certainly you could

1828
01:28:16,710 --> 01:28:15,370
impose on this a very strong religious

1829
01:28:18,690 --> 01:28:16,720
point of view I mean you have some

1830
01:28:22,340 --> 01:28:18,700
Angelica presidents you have a demonic

1831
01:28:26,010 --> 01:28:22,350
sort of presence yeah so there is that

1832
01:28:28,590 --> 01:28:26,020
the question for me would be is and this

1833
01:28:31,020 --> 01:28:28,600
is what I think I think these things

1834
01:28:34,140 --> 01:28:31,030
these images were kind of in their heads

1835
01:28:39,440 --> 01:28:34,150
and if someone was a scientist and

1836
01:28:43,590 --> 01:28:39,450
trying to extract emotional responses I

1837
01:28:46,380 --> 01:28:43,600
think I would use experiences that they

1838
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:46,390
really had and traumas that they really

1839
01:28:52,940 --> 01:28:49,090
had and a language that they really had

1840
01:28:56,400 --> 01:28:52,950
and so to these people angels demons

1841
01:28:59,839 --> 01:28:56,410
these kinds of things were ways to evoke

1842
01:29:01,870 --> 01:28:59,849
horror or comfort

1843
01:29:06,109 --> 01:29:01,880
and I think they were you know

1844
01:29:09,350 --> 01:29:06,119
incredibly manipulated mentally and and

1845
01:29:15,379 --> 01:29:09,360
yessir tortured mentally to extract

1846
01:29:17,060 --> 01:29:15,389
information about how humans think what

1847
01:29:24,709 --> 01:29:17,070
their mental makeup is how their

1848
01:29:26,870 --> 01:29:24,719
emotions were things like that and did

1849
01:29:29,990 --> 01:29:26,880
they happen to know if other people were

1850
01:29:33,589 --> 01:29:30,000
being treated similarly you know other

1851
01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:33,599
people were like for instance were

1852
01:29:40,790 --> 01:29:37,050
they're the only two people that were

1853
01:29:43,790 --> 01:29:40,800
connected with on this visitation yeah

1854
01:29:45,979 --> 01:29:43,800
actually they went to that day to

1855
01:29:48,290 --> 01:29:45,989
another campsite so there were other

1856
01:29:52,310 --> 01:29:48,300
people camping a couple of older people

1857
01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:52,320
and of course they you know they beat

1858
01:29:57,439 --> 01:29:55,530
around the bush don't ask him to do see

1859
01:29:58,970 --> 01:29:57,449
aliens last night or a giant spacecraft

1860
01:30:03,410 --> 01:29:58,980
they said did you see anything strange

1861
01:30:06,319 --> 01:30:03,420
in the sky and the woman who was making

1862
01:30:08,209 --> 01:30:06,329
coffee that morning said they went to

1863
01:30:11,479 --> 01:30:08,219
bed early that night you know dinner and

1864
01:30:12,979 --> 01:30:11,489
went to bed you know early so they could

1865
01:30:16,100 --> 01:30:12,989
get up and do whatever they were gonna

1866
01:30:17,959 --> 01:30:16,110
do but so that was the extent of it but

1867
01:30:19,700 --> 01:30:17,969
no there were no other yeah this was

1868
01:30:21,830 --> 01:30:19,710
really a very deserted area of the

1869
01:30:24,919 --> 01:30:21,840
desert Wow

1870
01:30:27,890 --> 01:30:24,929
all right well Ron this is gonna do it

1871
01:30:30,410 --> 01:30:27,900
for the show for us we have we have

1872
01:30:32,450 --> 01:30:30,420
another guest coming up here and it's

1873
01:30:34,459 --> 01:30:32,460
been a real pleasure run I enjoyed it

1874
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:34,469
thanks thanks so much and let's talk

1875
01:30:40,729 --> 01:30:37,050
about your website and where someone can

1876
01:30:42,979 --> 01:30:40,739
get that book yeah my website is Ron

1877
01:30:46,669 --> 01:30:42,989
filbert calm so that's easy

1878
01:30:48,319 --> 01:30:46,679
the book is Mojave incident and you know

1879
01:30:51,669 --> 01:30:48,329
you can pick it up at bookstores or

1880
01:30:54,649 --> 01:30:51,679
Amazon I would ask that if somebody

1881
01:30:57,260 --> 01:30:54,659
listeners buy it in Amazon or Barnes &

1882
01:31:01,010 --> 01:30:57,270
Noble on the internet that they do a

1883
01:31:02,390 --> 01:31:01,020
customer review and and let me know and

1884
01:31:04,669 --> 01:31:02,400
let other people know what they think of

1885
01:31:06,290 --> 01:31:04,679
the book in the story sounds great

1886
01:31:09,890 --> 01:31:06,300
alright Ron well thanks a lot

1887
01:31:11,569 --> 01:31:09,900
thank you mom alright so hang in

1888
01:31:13,609 --> 01:31:11,579
everyone we're going to be connecting

1889
01:31:18,470 --> 01:31:13,619
with our next

1890
01:31:25,510 --> 01:31:18,480
guest here and that is Lee Spiegel so

1891
01:31:29,140 --> 01:31:25,520
hang on I am not seeing his contact here

1892
01:31:33,020 --> 01:31:29,150
live radio you got to love it

1893
01:31:36,680 --> 01:31:33,030
well while I'm waiting if anyone would

1894
01:31:39,140 --> 01:31:36,690
like to call in and say hi talk about a

1895
01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:39,150
UFO experience talk about our last guest

1896
01:31:47,470 --> 01:31:44,730
what you thought I am going to type this

1897
01:31:49,310 --> 01:31:47,480
contact in and try to get it going here

1898
01:31:54,770 --> 01:31:49,320
hang on everyone

1899
01:31:59,060 --> 01:31:54,780
we have someone calling end hello there

1900
01:32:01,790 --> 01:31:59,070
caller hi yes very Stanford wonderful

1901
01:32:03,530 --> 01:32:01,800
hey ray how are ya thanks for calling in

1902
01:32:06,020 --> 01:32:03,540
you you saved me right now because I'm

1903
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:06,030
trying to get to trying to get a contact

1904
01:32:12,260 --> 01:32:09,690
request going here and I just found it

1905
01:32:13,970 --> 01:32:12,270
so good to talk to you Ray thanks for

1906
01:32:15,979 --> 01:32:13,980
calling in yeah

1907
01:32:17,870 --> 01:32:15,989
oh well if you've got Lee on there I

1908
01:32:20,660 --> 01:32:17,880
probably better sign out and then no no

1909
01:32:22,790 --> 01:32:20,670
Lee's not on yet I'm okay I'm trying to

1910
01:32:26,359 --> 01:32:22,800
get his up I wanted to I wanted to make

1911
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:26,369
some comments now I've read the Mojave

1912
01:32:33,649 --> 01:32:28,050
incident from from front to back

1913
01:32:36,609 --> 01:32:33,659
completely and I'm gonna say and with no

1914
01:32:38,959 --> 01:32:36,619
animosity to anybody or the author but

1915
01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:38,969
that's one of the worst books I've ever

1916
01:32:43,700 --> 01:32:41,730
read in the first place the first three

1917
01:32:45,890 --> 01:32:43,710
quarters of it reads exactly like an

1918
01:32:48,859 --> 01:32:45,900
extremely poorly written Z grade movie

1919
01:32:50,870 --> 01:32:48,869
script and it does in fact say at the

1920
01:32:54,169 --> 01:32:50,880
front of the book that it is inspired by

1921
01:32:56,510 --> 01:32:54,179
a chilling story doesn't say it is the

1922
01:32:59,359 --> 01:32:56,520
word for word fact and it goes into

1923
01:33:01,310 --> 01:32:59,369
every kind of incredible tawdry detail

1924
01:33:03,979 --> 01:33:01,320
of imagination between a man and the

1925
01:33:08,030 --> 01:33:03,989
woman and every soda they pop by brand

1926
01:33:11,510 --> 01:33:08,040
and every puff of a anything can being

1927
01:33:14,959 --> 01:33:11,520
pulled open I mean it's it's it's not a

1928
01:33:18,859 --> 01:33:14,969
ridiculous but the statement that he

1929
01:33:21,790 --> 01:33:18,869
made that if people are on drugs they do

1930
01:33:25,430 --> 01:33:21,800
not share hallucination is quite false

1931
01:33:27,320 --> 01:33:25,440
in fact in the 19 late 60s and early 70s

1932
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:27,330
I talked to numbers of people

1933
01:33:32,390 --> 01:33:30,210
who were in fact has it heads and when

1934
01:33:33,650 --> 01:33:32,400
yes if these people are isolated from

1935
01:33:36,110 --> 01:33:33,660
each other they're not going to share

1936
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:36,120
hallucinations but this woman and this

1937
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:38,970
man were in the same camper together and

1938
01:33:44,200 --> 01:33:41,370
they're there each one is talking about

1939
01:33:48,260 --> 01:33:44,210
what they're seeing well when you are

1940
01:33:51,230 --> 01:33:48,270
triggered by either psychosis or psyche

1941
01:33:54,320 --> 01:33:51,240
psychotic psychosis engaging drugs you

1942
01:33:56,480 --> 01:33:54,330
can get to getting into what they or the

1943
01:34:00,110 --> 01:33:56,490
person is talking about it's happened

1944
01:34:01,820 --> 01:34:00,120
many many times and I'm not against

1945
01:34:04,460 --> 01:34:01,830
abductions but it sounds to me that

1946
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:04,470
these people had read almost every book

1947
01:34:11,870 --> 01:34:06,690
that's available at the time from the

1948
01:34:14,450 --> 01:34:11,880
anal probe on down or up and it just in

1949
01:34:17,690 --> 01:34:14,460
my opinion carries no credibility as a

1950
01:34:20,510 --> 01:34:17,700
credible abduction you and I know both

1951
01:34:23,390 --> 01:34:20,520
that I mean you know that I fully am

1952
01:34:25,430 --> 01:34:23,400
aware that abductions occur and I talked

1953
01:34:27,050 --> 01:34:25,440
to the son of an Air Force general who

1954
01:34:30,410 --> 01:34:27,060
was the first person that I know of that

1955
01:34:32,660 --> 01:34:30,420
was ever abducted in 1956 in the desert

1956
01:34:34,250 --> 01:34:32,670
of New Mexico and I have no doubt that

1957
01:34:37,190 --> 01:34:34,260
this happened he described it long

1958
01:34:41,510 --> 01:34:37,200
before he just got to me in the summer

1959
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:41,520
of 1956 and so I'm not trying to put

1960
01:34:45,490 --> 01:34:43,650
down the idea of abduction or mysterious

1961
01:34:49,700 --> 01:34:45,500
things one final thing I would mention

1962
01:34:51,170 --> 01:34:49,710
five galaxies this lady talks about them

1963
01:34:53,810 --> 01:34:51,180
in the book as if they were talking

1964
01:34:56,510 --> 01:34:53,820
about local bridge clubs in one small

1965
01:35:01,090 --> 01:34:56,520
community in California or somewhere I

1966
01:35:04,700 --> 01:35:01,100
mean a galaxy is hundreds of millions of

1967
01:35:07,580 --> 01:35:04,710
Suns and potentially planets you don't

1968
01:35:09,380 --> 01:35:07,590
have five galaxies as you units coming

1969
01:35:10,610 --> 01:35:09,390
together and having little councils and

1970
01:35:14,630 --> 01:35:10,620
so on and so forth it doesn't work that

1971
01:35:16,130 --> 01:35:14,640
way the sons of diverse ages in galaxies

1972
01:35:19,250 --> 01:35:16,140
and some are spinning right into the

1973
01:35:21,170 --> 01:35:19,260
middle of the black hole and it seems

1974
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:21,180
that the lady talked about galaxies as

1975
01:35:25,220 --> 01:35:22,850
if she didn't even know what they are

1976
01:35:28,130 --> 01:35:25,230
doesn't have the slightest concept of

1977
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:28,140
what they are and there's nothing that I

1978
01:35:32,300 --> 01:35:30,090
read in the book that is credible at all

1979
01:35:34,310 --> 01:35:32,310
and he implies it in the book that this

1980
01:35:36,290 --> 01:35:34,320
is a valid story because these two

1981
01:35:39,050 --> 01:35:36,300
doctors said that these people were not

1982
01:35:40,550 --> 01:35:39,060
psychotic I'm sorry that has nothing to

1983
01:35:41,120 --> 01:35:40,560
do with the question of what was

1984
01:35:43,910 --> 01:35:41,130
happening

1985
01:35:47,960 --> 01:35:43,920
and certainly if they stated that that

1986
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:47,970
you don't hallucinate common things but

1987
01:35:50,210 --> 01:35:49,050
when you're in the room together and

1988
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:50,220
talking about what you think you're

1989
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:52,770
seeing that is absolutely wrong and

1990
01:35:56,540 --> 01:35:54,570
anybody who's really talking with people

1991
01:35:59,390 --> 01:35:56,550
in that field will tell you that that is

1992
01:36:05,210 --> 01:35:59,400
incorrect so that's what I have to say

1993
01:36:06,770 --> 01:36:05,220
about it okay someone just said they

1994
01:36:08,420 --> 01:36:06,780
love you in the chat room can you hang

1995
01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:08,430
on just a minute I'm gonna try Lee I'm

1996
01:36:13,550 --> 01:36:10,530
not sure if this is gonna work okay and

1997
01:36:14,870 --> 01:36:13,560
if Lee doesn't connect and how long ago

1998
01:36:16,850 --> 01:36:14,880
did you get the book because it just

1999
01:36:19,370 --> 01:36:16,860
recently came out right actually I

2000
01:36:21,260 --> 01:36:19,380
ordered is about a month before it came

2001
01:36:25,340 --> 01:36:21,270
out and so I probably got it the first

2002
01:36:27,890 --> 01:36:25,350
day that that amazon.com had it I've had

2003
01:36:31,130 --> 01:36:27,900
it in Alfred oh gosh thank you three

2004
01:36:35,390 --> 01:36:31,140
weeks I read it within the first day and

2005
01:36:39,590 --> 01:36:35,400
I had but when I got it okay all right

2006
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:39,600
so let's see let me just try one more

2007
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:43,290
thing here with Lee Earth - Marty Earth

2008
01:36:49,190 --> 01:36:46,890
- yeah I think we lost everyone can you

2009
01:36:51,950 --> 01:36:49,200
call me back on this in just one minute

2010
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:51,960
I have to get everyone back okay you

2011
01:36:56,720 --> 01:36:53,850
want me to call you on Marty Willis yeah

2012
01:36:57,140 --> 01:36:56,730
yeah yeah I'll do my best okay all right

2013
01:37:01,880 --> 01:36:57,150
thank you

2014
01:37:05,480 --> 01:37:01,890
okay we're back sorry about that okay

2015
01:37:07,430 --> 01:37:05,490
everyone we're on the air and we did get

2016
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:07,440
a hold of Lee but at the same time

2017
01:37:12,380 --> 01:37:10,050
everyone dropped out including this

2018
01:37:14,270 --> 01:37:12,390
network and I'm sorry this is live radio

2019
01:37:17,930 --> 01:37:14,280
it's just one of those things I need

2020
01:37:20,090 --> 01:37:17,940
someone in this studio with me sometimes

2021
01:37:22,820 --> 01:37:20,100
it's just it's rather difficult to do

2022
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:22,830
Lee is going to call back I hang up ax

2023
01:37:27,860 --> 01:37:25,530
hung up accidentally on Ray and of

2024
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:27,870
course the network here so Lee will be

2025
01:37:31,460 --> 01:37:28,890
calling back any minute

2026
01:37:34,250 --> 01:37:31,470
hello Lee can you hear me there you are

2027
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:34,260
right I'm right here Wow and your mic

2028
01:37:39,620 --> 01:37:38,010
sounds really good so does yours people

2029
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:39,630
that do this for a living it's always

2030
01:37:45,020 --> 01:37:42,570
good to have them on that's true welcome

2031
01:37:46,900 --> 01:37:45,030
back Lee we just had a we just had Ray

2032
01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:46,910
Stanford on you and I were chatting

2033
01:37:52,240 --> 01:37:49,770
mentioned him the other day and mm-hmm

2034
01:37:54,590 --> 01:37:52,250
yeah Ray was on and he was basically

2035
01:38:01,850 --> 01:37:54,600
giving his opinion on the

2036
01:38:03,530 --> 01:38:01,860
guests in the last book not so good that

2037
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:03,540
guest in the book you can always count

2038
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:05,850
on Ray for a good honest opinion that

2039
01:38:11,930 --> 01:38:09,330
was Ron Felber on the Mohave incident

2040
01:38:13,400 --> 01:38:11,940
oh I'm not familiar with that book or

2041
01:38:15,380 --> 01:38:13,410
with Ron aha

2042
01:38:18,500 --> 01:38:15,390
well he is kind of making the rounds and

2043
01:38:20,930 --> 01:38:18,510
on different shows and it has to do with

2044
01:38:23,690 --> 01:38:20,940
the couple that was in the Mojave Desert

2045
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:23,700
and their account of quite an amazing

2046
01:38:29,210 --> 01:38:26,730
abduction if any of it is real so let's

2047
01:38:33,410 --> 01:38:29,220
talk about what's going on with you and

2048
01:38:36,910 --> 01:38:33,420
also you sent me some artwork do you

2049
01:38:38,960 --> 01:38:36,920
want to talk about that too well a

2050
01:38:41,270 --> 01:38:38,970
couple weeks ago I can't believe it's

2051
01:38:44,380 --> 01:38:41,280
been two weeks already since I was in

2052
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:44,390
Southern California at the annual MUFON

2053
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:47,610
symposium and one of the things that I

2054
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:49,650
was really looking forward to while I

2055
01:38:57,190 --> 01:38:53,730
was there was my friend Dale Hendrickson

2056
01:38:59,390 --> 01:38:57,200
who is one of the the long-term

2057
01:39:03,410 --> 01:38:59,400
illustrators of characters on The

2058
01:39:07,850 --> 01:39:03,420
Simpsons television show and he's also a

2059
01:39:10,430 --> 01:39:07,860
very very popular UFO aficionado

2060
01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:10,440
he draws and illustrates and paints

2061
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:14,610
beautiful out of space scenes and he's

2062
01:39:19,610 --> 01:39:17,610
been going around to some of the UFO

2063
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:19,620
conferences to sell as many things

2064
01:39:25,390 --> 01:39:22,530
about a year ago I told him about my

2065
01:39:27,860 --> 01:39:25,400
encounter from 40 years ago I'm

2066
01:39:32,120 --> 01:39:27,870
celebrating my 40th anniversary now as

2067
01:39:36,620 --> 01:39:32,130
is Travis Walton who also had an amazing

2068
01:39:38,750 --> 01:39:36,630
encounter 40 years ago and I told Dale

2069
01:39:41,300 --> 01:39:38,760
about the encounter in North Carolina

2070
01:39:43,910 --> 01:39:41,310
where I was surrounded by sheriff's

2071
01:39:47,540 --> 01:39:43,920
people Highway patrolmen police officers

2072
01:39:50,200 --> 01:39:47,550
and we watched as this craft approached

2073
01:39:53,030 --> 01:39:50,210
us from across the field at night and

2074
01:39:55,610 --> 01:39:53,040
when it got close enough to us where the

2075
01:39:58,820 --> 01:39:55,620
lights below it could actually

2076
01:40:00,710 --> 01:39:58,830
illuminate the structure itself we could

2077
01:40:04,910 --> 01:40:00,720
see that it was a triangular craft and

2078
01:40:07,940 --> 01:40:04,920
now back in 1975 we hadn't heard much

2079
01:40:12,170 --> 01:40:07,950
about these kinds of shapes right you

2080
01:40:15,020 --> 01:40:12,180
know mostly circular crashed you know we

2081
01:40:19,490 --> 01:40:15,030
didn't have a lot of cracks we can

2082
01:40:21,380 --> 01:40:19,500
always hope right when when astronomer J

2083
01:40:24,380 --> 01:40:21,390
Allen Hynek first called me and asked me

2084
01:40:25,640 --> 01:40:24,390
to go to North Carolina to check this

2085
01:40:27,830 --> 01:40:25,650
out with him I told him I was

2086
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:27,840
disappointed that he was sending me to

2087
01:40:33,350 --> 01:40:31,530
see a flying dorito essentially he said

2088
01:40:35,030 --> 01:40:33,360
look if you don't want to go I can find

2089
01:40:38,180 --> 01:40:35,040
someone else oh no no no don't finish

2090
01:40:40,490 --> 01:40:38,190
that thought I'm going when Allen Hynek

2091
01:40:43,120 --> 01:40:40,500
calls you and asks you to go somewhere

2092
01:40:48,020 --> 01:40:43,130
to investigate something for him you go

2093
01:40:49,490 --> 01:40:48,030
right within a few hours of my arriving

2094
01:40:51,860 --> 01:40:49,500
in the Sheriff's Department down in

2095
01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:51,870
Lumberton North Carolina I hit the

2096
01:40:56,960 --> 01:40:54,930
jackpot and and and so I was telling

2097
01:41:00,500 --> 01:40:56,970
Dale Hendrickson this painter the story

2098
01:41:03,730 --> 01:41:00,510
about it and and last week or two weeks

2099
01:41:07,850 --> 01:41:03,740
ago at the MUFON symposium he unveiled a

2100
01:41:11,660 --> 01:41:07,860
painting of the biggest moment of the

2101
01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:11,670
encounter and it totally took my breath

2102
01:41:18,260 --> 01:41:15,690
away because I had never seen it done

2103
01:41:20,780 --> 01:41:18,270
like this in such a way that I would go

2104
01:41:23,720 --> 01:41:20,790
over to it and go yes that's exactly

2105
01:41:25,730 --> 01:41:23,730
what we saw and you have this on your

2106
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:25,740
website now I believe and I put it up

2107
01:41:33,080 --> 01:41:29,610
right now so if anyone that's in the

2108
01:41:35,870 --> 01:41:33,090
chat room right now if you refresh the

2109
01:41:37,550 --> 01:41:35,880
page you won't lose a little sign you

2110
01:41:39,770 --> 01:41:37,560
right back into the chat room and you'll

2111
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:39,780
see some images that I just posted just

2112
01:41:47,510 --> 01:41:43,050
as very now or what what leads talking

2113
01:41:48,290 --> 01:41:47,520
about when when the craft was directly

2114
01:41:52,190 --> 01:41:48,300
above us

2115
01:41:54,980 --> 01:41:52,200
it stopped it hovered it made no sound

2116
01:41:57,110 --> 01:41:54,990
it had no engine sound had a row of

2117
01:41:58,760 --> 01:41:57,120
white lights up one side and red lights

2118
01:42:01,520 --> 01:41:58,770
up the other and at the apex they had

2119
01:42:03,830 --> 01:42:01,530
one bright light and at one point as we

2120
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:03,840
were all looking up at it it shined it

2121
01:42:09,650 --> 01:42:07,410
is amazingly bright hard to look at beam

2122
01:42:11,570 --> 01:42:09,660
of light directly down on the ground

2123
01:42:13,400 --> 01:42:11,580
where we were if you look at the

2124
01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:13,410
painting that you've got there Martin

2125
01:42:17,990 --> 01:42:16,290
the the figure of the person in the

2126
01:42:21,210 --> 01:42:18,000
middle who's got his arms outstretched

2127
01:42:24,460 --> 01:42:21,220
that's me

2128
01:42:25,510 --> 01:42:24,470
you look younger there that was 40 years

2129
01:42:27,100 --> 01:42:25,520
ago come on

2130
01:42:28,660 --> 01:42:27,110
and I was gonna say thinner but that

2131
01:42:30,790 --> 01:42:28,670
would be mean I wouldn't say that

2132
01:42:32,650 --> 01:42:30,800
well you can't tell was way it looked

2133
01:42:36,880 --> 01:42:32,660
like I was wearing like a trench coat or

2134
01:42:38,860 --> 01:42:36,890
a tunic yeah so let's talk about you're

2135
01:42:42,270 --> 01:42:38,870
going to be heading out and I really

2136
01:42:43,870 --> 01:42:42,280
wish I could go but you're heading out

2137
01:42:47,770 --> 01:42:43,880
November 5th

2138
01:42:52,240 --> 01:42:47,780
out in in the Scottsdale area out in

2139
01:42:56,020 --> 01:42:52,250
snowflake yes it's on the actual date of

2140
01:43:00,520 --> 01:42:56,030
the Travis Walton UFO abduction was

2141
01:43:03,370 --> 01:43:00,530
November 5th 1975 just a few months

2142
01:43:05,370 --> 01:43:03,380
after a few months after I was hit by a

2143
01:43:07,570 --> 01:43:05,380
beam of light from an unknown craft

2144
01:43:10,630 --> 01:43:07,580
Travis was hit by a beam of light

2145
01:43:13,960 --> 01:43:10,640
Herrmann unknown craft but in his case

2146
01:43:15,910 --> 01:43:13,970
he disappeared for five days so like I

2147
01:43:19,240 --> 01:43:15,920
came away from my experience a little

2148
01:43:22,260 --> 01:43:19,250
easier than needed and and so there's

2149
01:43:25,240 --> 01:43:22,270
going to be this 40th anniversary

2150
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:25,250
conference called the sky fire summit

2151
01:43:32,050 --> 01:43:29,890
and it's his anniversary conference and

2152
01:43:34,540 --> 01:43:32,060
they're selling tickets now for this

2153
01:43:36,190 --> 01:43:34,550
thing it and you can still buy tickets

2154
01:43:38,290 --> 01:43:36,200
there's going to be there going to be a

2155
01:43:40,060 --> 01:43:38,300
lot of people there we hope and one of

2156
01:43:43,630 --> 01:43:40,070
the first things that we're going to do

2157
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:43,640
on the first day there the actual

2158
01:43:48,040 --> 01:43:45,530
anniversary date is everybody's going to

2159
01:43:50,440 --> 01:43:48,050
get into some buses and we're going to

2160
01:43:53,020 --> 01:43:50,450
drive into the the Indian reservation

2161
01:43:56,850 --> 01:43:53,030
into the forest and go to the exact site

2162
01:43:59,770 --> 01:43:56,860
where this took place in the forest yeah

2163
01:44:02,170 --> 01:43:59,780
yeah that that's amazing he was there

2164
01:44:05,080 --> 01:44:02,180
last year it happened to fall on a

2165
01:44:07,900 --> 01:44:05,090
Wednesday of course it was a 39 not the

2166
01:44:11,170 --> 01:44:07,910
40th and so this will be really exciting

2167
01:44:13,590 --> 01:44:11,180
40 years it's hard to believe yes and

2168
01:44:16,510 --> 01:44:13,600
and if you do you have up on your site

2169
01:44:16,720 --> 01:44:16,520
the picture that yes Travis and me yes I

2170
01:44:19,270 --> 01:44:16,730
do

2171
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:19,280
so everyone if you're listening live you

2172
01:44:23,950 --> 01:44:21,530
can just scroll down of course if you

2173
01:44:27,070 --> 01:44:23,960
refresh the page and you scroll down and

2174
01:44:30,310 --> 01:44:27,080
you'll see the picture of Travis and Lee

2175
01:44:33,130 --> 01:44:30,320
together so we stood on both sides of

2176
01:44:36,750 --> 01:44:33,140
the painting at the MUFON

2177
01:44:38,410 --> 01:44:36,760
reference and while I'm pointing at me

2178
01:44:40,810 --> 01:44:38,420
on the ground

2179
01:44:42,460 --> 01:44:40,820
Travis is pointing up at the craft and

2180
01:44:44,770 --> 01:44:42,470
he's actually saying to me

2181
01:44:50,830 --> 01:44:44,780
while the beam was coming down at you I

2182
01:44:54,730 --> 01:44:50,840
was in the craft driving it so when this

2183
01:44:58,870 --> 01:44:54,740
beam did come down though yeah what you

2184
01:45:01,510 --> 01:44:58,880
said it was brilliant light and what did

2185
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:01,520
you feel anything did you know what was

2186
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:03,770
your experience with that the if you've

2187
01:45:10,630 --> 01:45:07,610
ever driven past a construction site

2188
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:10,640
where the men are doing welding and and

2189
01:45:16,030 --> 01:45:13,370
they're using these magnesium flares as

2190
01:45:17,860 --> 01:45:16,040
part of their job and if you you find

2191
01:45:19,480 --> 01:45:17,870
that they have to wear goggles and

2192
01:45:21,490 --> 01:45:19,490
protect to protect their eyes but if

2193
01:45:23,770 --> 01:45:21,500
you're looking at from a distance the

2194
01:45:25,720 --> 01:45:23,780
brightness from some of these layers is

2195
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:25,730
so bright that you really can't look

2196
01:45:30,460 --> 01:45:27,530
directly at it that's what this thing

2197
01:45:32,170 --> 01:45:30,470
was like it came right out of the craft

2198
01:45:35,050 --> 01:45:32,180
came down on the ground right in front

2199
01:45:37,360 --> 01:45:35,060
of us and couldn't have lasted more than

2200
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:37,370
two two and a half seconds but it kind

2201
01:45:42,460 --> 01:45:39,530
of seemed like an hour to all of us who

2202
01:45:45,010 --> 01:45:42,470
were standing there and then the beam of

2203
01:45:47,650 --> 01:45:45,020
light went back into the craft all the

2204
01:45:50,620 --> 01:45:47,660
lights on the things turned off then the

2205
01:45:54,700 --> 01:45:50,630
whole thing turned kind of an amber

2206
01:45:57,850 --> 01:45:54,710
color and it turned in the sky very

2207
01:45:59,920 --> 01:45:57,860
slowly about 45-degree angles and then

2208
01:46:02,080 --> 01:45:59,930
it just started moving slowly off as if

2209
01:46:05,290 --> 01:46:02,090
to say I'm done with you jokers I'm

2210
01:46:08,650 --> 01:46:05,300
going somewhere else and it did I mean

2211
01:46:10,660 --> 01:46:08,660
we we got into the cars chasing it from

2212
01:46:14,380 --> 01:46:10,670
little towns a little town and I kept

2213
01:46:17,620 --> 01:46:14,390
coming on to different police officers

2214
01:46:21,370 --> 01:46:17,630
and highway patrolman one one one police

2215
01:46:23,620 --> 01:46:21,380
chief who all gave me interviews to tell

2216
01:46:26,140 --> 01:46:23,630
me of their encounter that they had just

2217
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:26,150
had with this thing and there were so

2218
01:46:30,820 --> 01:46:28,010
many police officers that saw it over

2219
01:46:33,100 --> 01:46:30,830
over several days I didn't know this

2220
01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:33,110
until a little over a year ago when a

2221
01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:35,810
book came out all about triangular UFOs

2222
01:46:42,190 --> 01:46:39,050
by David Marlar David David has done the

2223
01:46:45,490 --> 01:46:42,200
most definitive research into these

2224
01:46:46,690 --> 01:46:45,500
kinds of sightings and he he told us he

2225
01:46:51,040 --> 01:46:46,700
told me I put

2226
01:46:55,060 --> 01:46:51,050
in his book our encounter in 1975 was

2227
01:46:57,790 --> 01:46:55,070
the first multiple witness encounter of

2228
01:47:01,090 --> 01:46:57,800
a triangular-shaped object in America

2229
01:47:02,980 --> 01:47:01,100
and I didn't know that so from a

2230
01:47:06,730 --> 01:47:02,990
historical point of view it's like oh my

2231
01:47:08,860 --> 01:47:06,740
god it was an even bigger jackpot for me

2232
01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:08,870
being in the middle of it all right

2233
01:47:15,700 --> 01:47:11,690
right now I'm gonna have to ask you this

2234
01:47:17,980 --> 01:47:15,710
because the thought is there is there

2235
01:47:20,230 --> 01:47:17,990
was no such thing as you said it

2236
01:47:21,790 --> 01:47:20,240
happened in like two seconds but no one

2237
01:47:23,740 --> 01:47:21,800
ever talked about any possibility of

2238
01:47:26,020 --> 01:47:23,750
missing time or anything like that no

2239
01:47:28,780 --> 01:47:26,030
everything seemed pretty consistent and

2240
01:47:30,280 --> 01:47:28,790
pretty straightforward I it's not like

2241
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:30,290
we all look at our watches to say hey

2242
01:47:36,670 --> 01:47:31,850
what time you get on oh what time you

2243
01:47:38,620 --> 01:47:36,680
have there's nothing like that I was

2244
01:47:40,840 --> 01:47:38,630
more concerned about whether or not the

2245
01:47:42,970 --> 01:47:40,850
the police officers had guns with them

2246
01:47:44,530 --> 01:47:42,980
because I thought I thought it would

2247
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:44,540
keep me safe and then I thought I

2248
01:47:49,300 --> 01:47:46,850
thought twice about that like really how

2249
01:47:51,220 --> 01:47:49,310
safe would I be if there's something in

2250
01:47:53,620 --> 01:47:51,230
this craft that's hungry and just wants

2251
01:47:55,720 --> 01:47:53,630
to eat us ya know was there was it

2252
01:47:58,780 --> 01:47:55,730
making any type of noise at all I don't

2253
01:48:01,720 --> 01:47:58,790
know completely silent as it moved and

2254
01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:01,730
as it hovered just totally silent and

2255
01:48:07,720 --> 01:48:04,250
and the only other sounds that we could

2256
01:48:09,400 --> 01:48:07,730
hear be besides our heart hearts leaping

2257
01:48:11,770 --> 01:48:09,410
out of our chests

2258
01:48:16,030 --> 01:48:11,780
we're with the the nervous sounds of

2259
01:48:18,490 --> 01:48:16,040
dogs and horses in the area near how in

2260
01:48:20,380 --> 01:48:18,500
houses around the field that's amazing

2261
01:48:23,170 --> 01:48:20,390
that you actually went down there to see

2262
01:48:27,040 --> 01:48:23,180
this thing and it showed up what is the

2263
01:48:29,260 --> 01:48:27,050
area and you know of a broad area like

2264
01:48:31,810 --> 01:48:29,270
how many miles square miles or whatever

2265
01:48:34,170 --> 01:48:31,820
were people seeing this in oh it covered

2266
01:48:37,990 --> 01:48:34,180
the several counties it kind of happened

2267
01:48:39,700 --> 01:48:38,000
in between and on two consecutive early

2268
01:48:44,200 --> 01:48:39,710
weekends in April I believe I went down

2269
01:48:48,370 --> 01:48:44,210
there on April 3rd and it was several

2270
01:48:51,570 --> 01:48:48,380
counties in a very rural area about if I

2271
01:48:55,960 --> 01:48:51,580
can remember Lumberton is south of

2272
01:48:57,880 --> 01:48:55,970
Fayetteville by about 30 miles I believe

2273
01:49:00,459 --> 01:48:57,890
was the distance so actually I had to

2274
01:49:02,200 --> 01:49:00,469
fly in I had to fly from New York to

2275
01:49:04,689 --> 01:49:02,210
Washington and then pick up another

2276
01:49:06,549 --> 01:49:04,699
flight from Washington to Fayetteville

2277
01:49:07,989 --> 01:49:06,559
where someone from the Sheriff's

2278
01:49:11,500 --> 01:49:07,999
Department picked me up at the airport

2279
01:49:12,819 --> 01:49:11,510
and then drove me down to Lumberton so

2280
01:49:15,370 --> 01:49:12,829
it was you know it's pretty rural and

2281
01:49:18,129 --> 01:49:15,380
and it they were they couldn't have been

2282
01:49:20,049 --> 01:49:18,139
nicer they just wanted somebody to help

2283
01:49:21,189 --> 01:49:20,059
them try and figure out really what the

2284
01:49:24,370 --> 01:49:21,199
hell this thing was that they were

2285
01:49:26,219 --> 01:49:24,380
experiencing you know it always baffles

2286
01:49:28,810 --> 01:49:26,229
me if for something like this traveled

2287
01:49:32,379 --> 01:49:28,820
say light years to get here let's just

2288
01:49:34,359 --> 01:49:32,389
say that's what it is or as one case

2289
01:49:36,339 --> 01:49:34,369
traveled light years to get here

2290
01:49:38,709 --> 01:49:36,349
why would stick around in one little

2291
01:49:41,080 --> 01:49:38,719
area and you hear this over and over

2292
01:49:43,930 --> 01:49:41,090
again it's really puzzling but you know

2293
01:49:45,910 --> 01:49:43,940
what Martin I used to be puzzled by that

2294
01:49:48,640 --> 01:49:45,920
too I'm not anymore

2295
01:49:52,060 --> 01:49:48,650
you you want my basic come back to that

2296
01:49:55,569 --> 01:49:52,070
I mean I listen that was 1975 I've had

2297
01:49:59,439 --> 01:49:55,579
40 years of research and investigating

2298
01:50:01,390 --> 01:49:59,449
this subject to modify my feelings about

2299
01:50:04,359 --> 01:50:01,400
it in my opinions based on my own

2300
01:50:06,719 --> 01:50:04,369
experiences based on what people in the

2301
01:50:10,419 --> 01:50:06,729
military and scientists have told me and

2302
01:50:12,219 --> 01:50:10,429
and when people like like yourself say

2303
01:50:14,739 --> 01:50:12,229
you know what why do I seem to hang out

2304
01:50:18,939 --> 01:50:14,749
in like rural areas my response is I

2305
01:50:21,899 --> 01:50:18,949
don't know and I don't care I mean

2306
01:50:25,779 --> 01:50:21,909
really yeah I like to keep things really

2307
01:50:28,270 --> 01:50:25,789
simple a couple of years ago my my

2308
01:50:31,450 --> 01:50:28,280
younger brother in New Hampshire was

2309
01:50:33,100 --> 01:50:31,460
driving with with two of his sons my

2310
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:33,110
nephew's and they thought they saw some

2311
01:50:37,299 --> 01:50:35,570
odd lights in the sky and so they pulled

2312
01:50:38,680 --> 01:50:37,309
off to the side of the road and they get

2313
01:50:40,779 --> 01:50:38,690
out of the car to look at the lights and

2314
01:50:42,939 --> 01:50:40,789
within a minute or two my brother Jim

2315
01:50:44,109 --> 01:50:42,949
said that it's an airplane you see the

2316
01:50:46,479 --> 01:50:44,119
way it's turning its heading to the

2317
01:50:51,069 --> 01:50:46,489
airport they got back into the car and

2318
01:50:56,739 --> 01:50:51,079
and my my nephew Zachary said daddy why

2319
01:50:58,410 --> 01:50:56,749
do UFOs have lights and and Jim Jim said

2320
01:51:01,509 --> 01:50:58,420
to him that's a really good question

2321
01:51:05,410 --> 01:51:01,519
when we get home why don't you call

2322
01:51:08,500 --> 01:51:05,420
uncle Lee in New York and ask him he

2323
01:51:11,290 --> 01:51:08,510
might have a better answer and and and

2324
01:51:12,910 --> 01:51:11,300
you know I've asked that question people

2325
01:51:14,330 --> 01:51:12,920
have asked me that question it's a great

2326
01:51:17,799 --> 01:51:14,340
question because

2327
01:51:21,919 --> 01:51:17,809
if we're talking about that some UFOs

2328
01:51:23,959 --> 01:51:21,929
could be somebody else's spacecraft or

2329
01:51:26,149 --> 01:51:23,969
extra dimensional craft like Stan

2330
01:51:28,339 --> 01:51:26,159
Friedman likes to talk about the nuclear

2331
01:51:31,459 --> 01:51:28,349
physicist that means they have a

2332
01:51:33,830 --> 01:51:31,469
technology that's so far beyond what we

2333
01:51:37,100 --> 01:51:33,840
have that that they wouldn't necessarily

2334
01:51:38,839 --> 01:51:37,110
need lights because their craft probably

2335
01:51:41,000 --> 01:51:38,849
have better built-in sensors they can

2336
01:51:42,790 --> 01:51:41,010
just totally travel around in total

2337
01:51:46,700 --> 01:51:42,800
darkness and never bump into each other

2338
01:51:49,310 --> 01:51:46,710
yeah that is a really actually it's

2339
01:51:51,589 --> 01:51:49,320
amazing sometimes what kids can come up

2340
01:51:55,490 --> 01:51:51,599
with the best questions sure and you

2341
01:51:57,709 --> 01:51:55,500
know and and lately my response really

2342
01:51:59,330 --> 01:51:57,719
to that is now I don't even I don't even

2343
01:52:02,450 --> 01:51:59,340
say I don't know why they have lights

2344
01:52:05,299 --> 01:52:02,460
now I say to people the only logical

2345
01:52:07,580 --> 01:52:05,309
reason to me that they have lights is

2346
01:52:09,589 --> 01:52:07,590
for our benefit they what they want us

2347
01:52:15,140 --> 01:52:09,599
to see them right I mean think about

2348
01:52:16,129 --> 01:52:15,150
that yeah exactly exactly we have just

2349
01:52:20,479 --> 01:52:16,139
about one minute

2350
01:52:21,799 --> 01:52:20,489
Lee so do you you have any recent

2351
01:52:25,220 --> 01:52:21,809
articles real quickly we want to talk

2352
01:52:27,200 --> 01:52:25,230
about well let's see I got I got a story

2353
01:52:30,020 --> 01:52:27,210
up there now that we posted just a few

2354
01:52:33,140 --> 01:52:30,030
days ago about how I've sort of taken

2355
01:52:35,600 --> 01:52:33,150
issue with professor Stephen Hawking yes

2356
01:52:40,399 --> 01:52:35,610
that's Stephen Hawking and what a fool I

2357
01:52:42,890 --> 01:52:40,409
am to try and criticize him right lately

2358
01:52:44,479 --> 01:52:42,900
I mean in the past few years I believe

2359
01:52:47,180 --> 01:52:44,489
he's been a little hypocritical on the

2360
01:52:50,120 --> 01:52:47,190
one hand he's been saying for years

2361
01:52:52,450 --> 01:52:50,130
we should not send any messages we

2362
01:52:54,589 --> 01:52:52,460
should not try to contact any

2363
01:52:56,959 --> 01:52:54,599
extraterrestrial beings because it could

2364
01:52:58,700 --> 01:52:56,969
be disastrous for us look at how badly

2365
01:53:01,069 --> 01:52:58,710
it turned out for the Native Americans

2366
01:53:04,430 --> 01:53:01,079
when Columbus arrived in America right

2367
01:53:06,919 --> 01:53:04,440
so he's been saying this a lot and yet a

2368
01:53:09,649 --> 01:53:06,929
few months ago he he completely

2369
01:53:12,490 --> 01:53:09,659
supported and still does the Russian

2370
01:53:15,589 --> 01:53:12,500
billionaire Yuri Milner has put together

2371
01:53:19,209 --> 01:53:15,599
he's put down a hundred million dollars

2372
01:53:22,509 --> 01:53:19,219
right for a ten year very focused

2373
01:53:24,950 --> 01:53:22,519
extremely interesting search for

2374
01:53:27,490 --> 01:53:24,960
extraterrestrials and Stephen Hawking is

2375
01:53:29,530 --> 01:53:27,500
saying yes I'm part of this and I

2376
01:53:31,720 --> 01:53:29,540
I think we should look for them yeah Lee

2377
01:53:33,430 --> 01:53:31,730
I'm sorry we're totally out of time here

2378
01:53:34,750 --> 01:53:33,440
okay that was been wonderful always

2379
01:53:36,850 --> 01:53:34,760
great to talk to you Lee

2380
01:53:38,290 --> 01:53:36,860
likewise thank you Martin all right so

2381
01:53:42,280 --> 01:53:38,300
thanks everyone that's it for the show

2382
01:53:45,460 --> 01:53:42,290
and next week we have norio hiya waka

2383
01:53:47,080 --> 01:53:45,470
and also Simon Sharman from England he's

2384
01:53:48,820 --> 01:53:47,090
going to stay up late and talk to us I

2385
01:53:51,220 --> 01:53:48,830
want to thank some people for helping

2386
01:53:53,140 --> 01:53:51,230
out with the show Keith Roland for

2387
01:53:55,540 --> 01:53:53,150
helping us with the live show Peggy

2388
01:53:57,280 --> 01:53:55,550
shunning for managing the Facebook page

2389
01:53:59,500 --> 01:53:57,290
remember to like us on Facebook for all

2390
01:54:01,390 --> 01:53:59,510
the latest UFO news we'll be back next

2391
01:54:04,540 --> 01:54:01,400
week right here on the Dark Matter